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Forums > CSDb Info > Release standards for cracks in CSDb
2008-08-01 15:59
Perff
Administrator

Posts: 1677
Release standards for cracks in CSDb

There have been made some new rules about what types of cracks we allow to be added to CSDb. (See the reason in the Preamble section below)
To begin with we post the rules here, but they will soon be includes in the general rules page.
CSDb release standards for cracks
---------------------------------

The following rules were collected and assembled by the CSDb staff, with help
and acknowledgement of a few people which represent the active cracking scene
of today and/or have profound knowledge of the cracking scene of the past:

 - The Ignorance (Nostalgia)
 - Jazzcat (Onslaught)
 - Burglar (SCS*TRC)
 - Jihad (Hitmen)
 - Widdy (Genesis*Project)
 - Ian Coog (Hokuto Force)
 - Taper (Triad)

Preamble:
---------

In the past CSDb always tried to keep the philosophy "we shall not judge
release quality" and we relied on the self-awareness of our users to do just
that. However, the recent months showed us that this approach doesn't work
anymore for the cracking scene. Since there is no more "authority" (such as
countless disk mags in the past) that reviews and ranks cracks, which is
somewhat fundamental for the competitive nature of the cracking scene, more
and more sub standard releases surfaced, some of which we do not consider
scene releases at all anymore. And our users started to question wether all
and everything is considered a scene release these days, and demanded us
to put an end to all the flaming and crap releases.

So these rules were designed, loosely related to the old firstrelease rules
(which were valid for almost 3 decades) with some more stuff added, and some
other stuff changed to reflect the nature of CSDb (for example we do NOT only
consider actual firstreleases, nor do we keep out "fake" releases per se). In
some ways our rules are a lot less restrictive, and in other ways we demand
more. However we tried to make sure that stuff that we think is "ok" does not
clash with these rules, and that they aren't terribly unfair to newcomers
either.

We didn't design these rules to discriminate against newbies (or anyone else),
but instead we think that rules like this are a necessary element in the
learning process of every cracker.

Goals:
------

- Motivate people to do more quality cracks. Quantity is nothing, quality is
  all.
- More tension in the cracking scene.
- Reward skill and effort
- The best cracker should win. not the loudest, not the most annoying, not
  the most persistant.
- Getting rid of rerereleases, 100%,101%,102% versions and similar nonsense.
- Motivate crackers to release games that were never released before and make
  better versions than anyone before

And last but not least:
- Motivate people to upload more old cracks

General Rules:
--------------

- These rules are only valid for cracks (by our definition) released after
  1/8-2008. whatever was released before must only comply with the old rules.
  However, all old rules also apply to new cracks, with the following
  additions and changes:

- Definition of a crack:

 Until now a crack was loosely defined as "unauthorized modification" of a
 program. these standards extend the definition as follows:

 - A crack MUST be preceded by a crack intro, with the only exception of
   tools, which most people prefer without intros.
 - "frozen" games are NOT considered cracks.
 - The crack MUST have substantial value over the original. linking
   your intro infront of some freeware game aint cut it. We atleast expect
   decent training and packing. If a game was released before, subsequent
   releases must have substantial value over previous releases.
 - The appearance of the game must NOT be altered in any way. No changing of
   ingame texts into your groups name, no altering of the hiscore tables.
   Altered hiscore tables are acceptable if the game has an option to restore
   the original content.
 - If the game has a hiscore table, we expect a hiscore saver. Hiscore savers
   MUST be disabled when trainers are active.
 - If there are docs available (which we might check on the net) then we
   expect them to be included.
 - Cracks should be pal/ntsc fixed, unless the game itself does not allow it.
   Obviously, when the crack is pal/ntsc fixed then the intro MUST be fixed
   too. Please notice that there is a strong emphasis on "should be fixed",
   and games which are trivial to fix (such as many "oldies") MUST be fixed.
   Also notice that unlike the traditional firstrelease rules, we demand *all*
   cracks to comply with this rule, including previews and the like.
 - Ingame text MUST be translated to english, with the only exception beeing
   games which contain huge amounts of text. (such as adventures)

- Any crack added to CSDb must be a valid release according to these rules.
  Whatever else will get deleted. "Oldschoolers" please notice that we do
  NOT make a difference between "full" releases and "previews" etc as it is/
  was commonly done in the firstrelease scene. We think that these days every
  release deserves the same effort, preview or not.

- So called "recracking" is generally and strongly frowned upon. For this
  reason each crack should somehow tell what kind of original was used (tape/
  disk/cart ...). Recracks are only accepted if no original is available and
  all existing cracks have bugs. (If in doubt, search harder for an original
  or crack a different game.) In this case the release MUST state what other
  crack was used. Credit where credit is due!
  Notice that this rule was the most objected one by our reviewers, who most
  of the time would like to see recracks completely banned. However, we don't
  want to do that (yet) - but to stress it again: recracks should be a rare
  exception!

- If a crack is accepted at atleast two of the following sites, which have
  been "official" release sites for atleast a decade, it will always be
  counted as a valid release on CSDb:

   The Digital Dungeon - ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/
   Banana Republic - ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/
   Antidote - antidote.hopto.org:23 (telnet BBS)

  Note that uploading alone doesn't count, the release must be accepted by
  the particular site and be moved out of incoming for everyone to download.
  You also must point out yourself wether a release is available at the above
  mentioned sites since the CSDb staff will not actively (or regularly) check
  them.

  This is an intentional "loophole" in these rules. if those sites accept
  a release, then we must consider it beeing a valid scene release, no matter
  what our own rules say. (Keep in mind though, that those sites by themselves
  have rather strict rules on what they accept and what not)

- Games made with game makers such as SEUCK (Shoot Em Up Construction Kit),
  GAC (Graphic Adventure Creator), RDK (Racing Destruction Kit), etc. are NOT
  considered valid releases.

- Games that are written primarily in basic will NOT be considered a valid
  release, unless significant effort has been put into it, such as translating
  huge amount of text. Classic commercial titles such as "pirates!" are an
  exception to this rule, while most magazine type-ins are not. if in doubt,
  WE decide.

- Generally every group can only release ONE version of a certain release.
  further updates are prohibited and will get deleted (see exceptions below).

The 48 hour rule:
-----------------

- After releasing a game, group A has 48 hours to release a possibly updated
  and/or fixed version of the same release, and during this period is also
  allowed to "silently" update its CSDb entry. Any updates after these 48h are
  prohibited and will get deleted and the original file restored. Please notice
  that this opportunity is meant for trivial fixes, such as a wrong filename, a
  typo in a scroller etc, NOT for uploading improved versions (like additional
  trainers). Also notice that if we notice that this rule will get abused we will
  remove it completely. As a countermeasure every time a "silent" update is made
  it must be stated in the comments, and explain what was changed.

- If a second group B releases a better version within 48h, it will "steal" the release
  from group A who originally added it and the previous version from group A will
  get deleted. then the clock will get restarted for group B

- If during these 48h someone is able to point out an older release of the same
  game (which must exist in CSDb, so an entry must have been created and the release
  must have been uploaded) which is better than the version that was just released,
  the new version will get deleted.

- If within 48h anyone can prove that a release is a recrack, although the release
  itself doesnt say so, the release in question will get deleted.

- If group C releases an even better version AFTER the 48h expired, it will NOT
  "steal" the previous release, and both versions will stay.

How we judge if a release is "better" than another:
---------------------------------------------------

- Onefiling. We expect cracks to be one in one file if it is possible.
- Size. Good packing is expected (that includes levelpacking multiload releases)
- Generally releases should work on a stock C64 with 1541 drive, everything else
  is a bonus.
- The size of the main file should not exceed 202 blocks so it can be loaded
  by stock kernal load.
- Filecopyable. track/sector loaders should be replaced so the crack can be
  copied file by file.
- Amount of trainers. notice that so called "double trainers" will make your
  release worse, not better. Every double trainer will DECREASE the number of
  trainers we will count for your release. (so a release with "+2" as in "in-
  finite lives player 1" and "infinite lives player 2" will not only be counted
  as "+1", but instead be counted as if it had no trainer at all)
- Translation to english. Translating lots of text is a huge effort which will
  always earn you a big plus. If there is only a little bit of text, such as a
  score display and "get ready" stuff, then a translation is EXPECTED.
- Bugs. Bugs that exist in the crack but which do not exist in the original
  will earn you a big minus. On the other hand, fixing bugs which are in the
  original will give you a plus.
- Releases made from a real original will always count more than recracks,
  obviously.

Strategy Guide:
---------------

For those who are new to the cracking scene, here are some hints:

- Before you start with a crack, check what other versions of that game
  exist. Don't crack it if you dont think you can make it better than all the
  old versions. Do not rely only on CSDb for reference wether something has
  already been released. There are a lot of games which have been released
  that are not added to CSDb yet. Some sites you may want to check are:

   The Digital Dungeon - ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/
   Banana Republic - ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/
   Antidote - antidote.hopto.org:23 (telnet BBS)
   Gamebase - http://www.gamebase64.com
   C64Games - http://c64games.de
   The List - http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/onslaught/thelist.html

- Use the original game (many are available for download on the net).
  Recracking is generally frowned upon. Generally only consider extending or
  fixing someone else's crack when no original can be found and existing cracks
  all have flaws. And even then, maybe still find another game.
- Spend time on testing your release. Typically that would be considerably
  more time that it took to make the actual crack. You are in no hurry, so
  make sure everything works correctly.
- If you are into competition, wait until some group releases a game, and
  then try to make a better version.
- If you want to make a first release, try to make it the best version ever,
  so no other group will be able to beat you in 48h

Final Words:
------------

These rules will get updated and finetuned over time, especially when we see
that someone is trying to exploit them and find loopholes. Please realise that
WE have the final word, and that WE decide wether a certain exception on the
current rules will be made or not. if in doubt, choose a different release
platform than CSDb.

Last not least, nitpicking on the wording and interpretation is not tolerated.
If in doubt, ask and we might update the rules to make more clear what we
mean.
 
... 131 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
 
2008-08-07 15:35
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:

Quoting Groepaz
ofcourse, like every release site we make our own rules, no more no less

contradicts

Quoting groepaz
csdb is not a release site.


yes it does. explained above. csdb isn't a release site per se, but people use it as such, which in turn requires us to act like one.

Quote:

And all this "CSDb" is not the scene ranting. Spare it, please.

Yeah well, maybe there is some "Scene" going on up in the hills of some distant country.
But for as far as I'm concerned, CSDb plays a very central role to what I percieve as the "Scene".


imho it can't be told often enough that csdb isn't the scene, and that the scene is not csdb. we can delete this site and the scene will continue to exist elsewhere.

that "central role" you are talking of is played by the releases itself, not csdb. csdb is just a mirror.

Quote:

Hell, I wouldn't even know where to upload my shit if it wasn't for CSDb.


see, thats the sad part about it. and its part of the problem that we try to steer against. csdb beeing the one and only place where people release their stuff is not what we want, because there is more to the scene than csdb.

anyway, some sites are given in the above rules. also, it might seem like a crazy idea but ... people tend to release and upload their stuff on their, or their groups, homepage. it worked for manky even :o)
2008-08-07 18:34
Stainless Steel

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966
Quoting Groepaz
that "central role" you are talking of is played by the releases itself, not csdb. csdb is just a mirror.

I disagree. Its not just the releases. Neither is just CSDb. Its the people who come here.

CSDb itself is a result of this community.

I'm not saying that CSDb is the be all and end all of the scene.
But to say that it wouldn't be missed, should it cease to exist, is a bold statement.

CSDb has become more than just a database. Things like this and this tell me that.

It might not "be the scene" but it sure is part of it.

PS : Quoting Groepaz
it worked for manky even :o)

Please, leave manky out of this.

PPS:
Strike that, even Manky has a purpose. We just havent figured it out yet.
2008-08-07 18:48
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:
I disagree. Its not just the releases. Neither is just CSDb. Its the people who come here.


and thats another thing we want to steer against - we want to push the main focus on (quality) releases again.

Quote:
But to say that it wouldn't be missed, should it cease to exist, is a bold statement.


i did not say that. what i said is that the scene doesnt need csdb to exist. the scene existed before there was csdb, and the scene will continue to exist when there is no more csdb. and a considerably large part of the scene exists without a need for csdb even today.

Quote:
It might not "be the scene" but it sure is part of it.

ofcourse, noone said it's not :) but you named the one important thing - csdb is PART of the scene. and also, PART of the scene is reflected in csdb. the problem are those who mistake csdb as beeing the scene. or even more scary, the scene as beeing csdb. its not.
2008-08-07 22:32
Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085
Quote: I'm not a cracker (at least for 15+ years). So these rules have nothing to do with me. I hate lame cracks just flooding CSDb as well. But there are two points which I don't agree with.

1) Cracks should be pal/ntsc fixed, unless the game itself does not allow it.

You cannot force all crackers to find out NTSC bugs of emulators (like I did recently when I was trying to make a side-border effect which works both on PAL/NTSC) just like you cannot expect from them to find the real hardware. Some games might be easy to fix but you cannot create a rule like this IMHO.

2) If a second group B releases a better version within 48h, it will "steal" the release from group A who originally added it and the previous version from group A will get deleted. then the clock will get restarted for group B

C'mon! CSDb != Scene I know but CSDb is not a compo place either. If you want to see competition, open a new site for that. Deleting the previous release of Group A after many people already downloaded that release? Were you drunk or something?


first and foremost, these rules are not about the legal scene. at all.

1)

While ntsc emulation is quite crappy, afaik there are no games taking advantage of things that aren't emulated properly. Even when that happens, I'm very sure nobody will be too strict. Also, some games are pretty much unfixable (somebody finally fix the lemmings intro 100%, fucking posers;)

2)

You sort of reach the reasons for these rules now. imho they are only there now to rid us from crap releases, nothing more, nothing less.
But as you cant say "ban group x", these rules were drafted so that the same rules apply to everybody. Genuine releases already follow the rules, check any Nostalgia or Remember release.

For me, the setup of these rules was handled very well. A lot of people involved from various backgrounds and a pretty sane rule set got created.
So, these rules have been drafted by the scene, for the scene and in addition implemented on csdb. What else do we want ;)

The remark "I guess this means I can enable cracks in the latest releases list preferences again." pretty much sums it all up.
2008-08-08 06:33
Marauder/GSS
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 224
Quote: Quote:

so CSDb doesn't want to preserve everything, ok I understand now...


if people would atleast read the introduction: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/help.php?section=intro (first paragraph, third paragraph)

or maybe even the more detailed rules: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/help.php?section=rules (V.2 V.8 V.9 V.10)

so no, csdb doesn't want to preserve everything. (also please notice that our definition of what belongs to the scene - and thus here - is already a _lot_ less restrictive and forgiving than what many sceners would want it to be)


*g* think you've misunderstood me again. Ofcoz I have read and know the rules and when I was talking about preserving history or 'everything' then I ofcoz mean scene relateded stuff like ALL releases of a scener or groups. Not commerical stuff and things like that.
Come on, we're on a SCENE-database, didn't know I have to add 'of the scene' to 'everything'. (c;
I like CSDb because I can find 'every' single release of a group here (and if not available, then for sure it'll be added sooner or later ;) and lot's of informations about the groups etc. If stuff gets deleted I somehow feel it's incomplete (and showing a biased view on scene/history), that's why I was "complaining" about deleting and ofcoz I agree to the rules as they sure will raise quality of the stuff getting released nowadays.... (c; just my 2cents, but I understand... anyway keep on with CSDb, would miss it...


2008-08-08 07:25
Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680
TWR: You are a.... ah hell I won't even waste my words on you.

Burglar: Damn right!

Recracking sucks, period. It was never tolerated, and never will be... nuff said about that.

Do quality work, or don't waste your time and ours. It doesn't score you any points. Like stated in the revised rules, if you can't do a crack (from an original!) and do it better or do something new with it, it is just a waste of your time and our time and disk/hosting space.

If you do this crap and are looking for fame, well your barking up the wrong tree as you will get what you have gotten and deserve, a beating by the scene. It's 2008, no ones cares, sorry to burst your bubble. Please stop wasting our time. (If I keep saying this maybe it will finally stick!)

I used to do this stuff cause I loved the c64, and the scene and most of the people in it. I quit doing it because of this crap that is coming out all the time called "releases" and I think most people can agree with me that it is just trolling and insulting. If this is what scene has become, well then fuck the scene! Young and some old turds who have no concept of scene or spirit coming a long and ruining shit for your self rightous ego wanking or just a troll or a laugh and putting it across as somehow being serious is such a fucking laugh... get serious your not fooling anyone except maybe yourselves. Most time the people who whine and complain are the offenders who don't like to conform, but hell we'd rather not have to instate rules at all, However, there's always some turd who comes along and shits in the punch bowl and fucks it up for everyone else... So, you think your cool? Yeah do ya? So is a toilet seat! So how does it feel to be the unattainable goal of manky's ass and load of shit? yeah real cool indeed I bet! muhauha...

I have spoken.


2008-08-08 17:58
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:

*g* think you've misunderstood me again. Ofcoz I have read and know the rules and when I was talking about preserving history or 'everything' then I ofcoz mean scene relateded stuff like ALL releases of a scener or groups. Not commerical stuff and things like that.
Come on, we're on a SCENE-database, didn't know I have to add 'of the scene' to 'everything'. (c;
I like CSDb because I can find 'every' single release of a group here (and if not available, then for sure it'll be added sooner or later ;) and lot's of informations about the groups etc. If stuff gets deleted I somehow feel it's incomplete (and showing a biased view on scene/history), that's why I was "complaining" about deleting and ofcoz I agree to the rules as they sure will raise quality of the stuff getting released nowadays.... (c; just my 2cents, but I understand... anyway keep on with CSDb, would miss it...


again: before we can even start collecting every scene release, we must define what a scene release is (and what is not). thats the whole point. and crappy half assed stuff such as those releases which are affected by these rules never qualified as scene releases. mail swappers would not spread them, and boards would delete them.

that said, i somehow doubt we will see a lot of those deleted releases - none of the serious groups is affected by the rules in any way, and the days when they would be hostile enough to "steal" each others releases are long gone.

and if your worries at some point become more than theory, we can still install a mechanism to deal with it in a way that "everything" gets preserved for historical reasons.

2008-08-08 20:22
Kater
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 20
Perhaps its the wrong place, or there is a thread somewhre else, but i want to write about it: i´m collector of nearly all games which have been released... Not importand from which group it was done, i collect 1, 2 or 3 versions of each game. Everyday i look here for new releases or latest additons of old cracks. But in last time i am wondering why sooo much additions are made without a file... Thats toally senseless in my eyes... /o\ Okay, PERHAPS SOMEONE IS ABLE TO ADD, but in the most times, there isn`t someone... :( So please dudes, stop adding something without file, ok? ;)
2008-08-08 20:32
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
entries without a file are perfectly fine if there is a good reason for not having the file (broken files, lost files, etc).

and yes, this has nothing to do with this thread :)
2008-08-08 20:33
Conrad

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 847
Quote:
But in last time i am wondering why sooo much additions are made without a file... Thats toally senseless in my eyes

That depends on the condition of the disk with that particular file. There were a couple of releases I added but having the disks completely bugged I wasn't able to upload. I thought the intention would be that you add the title and leave it unlocked for someone who also has the file to that release and then upload it themselves, but it seems that hasn't been happening recently. Depends on how famous the release is as well. I wouldn't guarantee an extremely lame release to be spread and that everyone would have it physically on disk.
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