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2007-05-14 02:52

Adam The Axe
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6

The Scene as it was.

I was in The Scene, therefore, I know what went on in the C64 scene. I see TOP GROUPS listed over there on the side display and I see DD listed #2, okay, I can buy alittle of that, Robin was a good dude, but there was only 1 number UNO in all of the C64 scene... and as much as I hate to admit, it was ESI, ONLY. Far and away, this group did more for C64 than any group, ever. Fairlight and Red Sector were a close second but not even close to Eaglesoft.

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2007-05-14 10:19

Graham
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990

DD is not #2 but #1 of the cracking groups. And when it comes to demos, both groups have earned exactly nothing, so Crest #1 in the overall groups is ok for me.

2007-05-14 10:56

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

I have the utmost respect for ESI, as does almost everybody here, especially the ones who, like Krill said, grew up with their intros.

But, being somebody who prefers demos over games and who didn't leave the scene to come back 20 years later wondering what happened, I have even more respect for other groups. Like Crest, the Vibrants, the Maniacs of Noise, but also Panoramic Designs, Triad & Fairlight. And I am quite certain a lot of other people feel the same way, maybe different names, but tastes differ, thank god. I couldn't handle it if you all loved me the same way my girlfriend does for example ;)

(I was desperately trying to insert a scene-handle there but couldn't come up with one of which I'm certain it's true. Now isn't that sad?)

Anyway, ESI is #6 in the charts, which is pretty damn good for a group that has been gone that long. If somebody feels they should be even higher there's only one thing to do: make sure more people vote 10s for it than for Crest.

Until that happens, ESI is not the most popular group here on csdb, it's that simple. No matter how good their cracks were.

2007-05-15 03:14

The Shark-INC
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 24

ESI was a great group, and probably the most memorable, but let's note the good with the bad. ESI never level crunched, never added fast loaders, and didn't take as much pride in their cracks as Europeans in terms of fixing their own bugged cracks. On top of that, ESI used their intimidation powers much like Microsoft did in order to have other groups' cracks deleted from BBSes. And let's not forget how they used their minions like Pira-Ted to harass and turn in competition.

ESI, a one man group really, could sit back munching Doritos before casually deciding to crack games. In Europe, the competition was much more fierce which IMO created better crackers. I honestly think Europes' top 5 crackers could all easily surpass Mitch if given a game at the same time. Whenever Mitch did have serious competition with UCF, ESI looked vulnerable. Yes, Mitch still was better than JJ but I think that the lack of competition make ESI look better than they truly were.

2007-05-15 07:54

Sander

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493

Great insights!

2007-05-15 09:15

SECRET MAN
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 336

Quote: ESI was a great group, and probably the most memorable, but let's note the good with the bad. ESI never level crunched, never added fast loaders, and didn't take as much pride in their cracks as Europeans in terms of fixing their own bugged cracks. On top of that, ESI used their intimidation powers much like Microsoft did in order to have other groups' cracks deleted from BBSes. And let's not forget how they used their minions like Pira-Ted to harass and turn in competition.

ESI, a one man group really, could sit back munching Doritos before casually deciding to crack games. In Europe, the competition was much more fierce which IMO created better crackers. I honestly think Europes' top 5 crackers could all easily surpass Mitch if given a game at the same time. Whenever Mitch did have serious competition with UCF, ESI looked vulnerable. Yes, Mitch still was better than JJ but I think that the lack of competition make ESI look better than they truly were.

I agree.Most of their cracks were not 100 percent,so that other groups made some demos against ESI.

2007-05-15 11:29

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Well, the anti-ESI demos werent regarding if the releases were 100 or not but more to do with the war between UCF and others (so the demos were more regarding the competitive nature as opposed to quality of cracking).

2007-05-15 12:15

icon

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90

Id agree with THE SHARK-INC here. The general opinion about the NTSC-scene in scandinavia around the mid-late eightes was that the NTSC-scene had alot of cool games but very few quality crackers and coders for that matter, ESI not excluded. Maby it was just pure ignorance from us/me just for simply not being aware of the much harder protections "they" have to cope with. But my opinion about ESI/RAD/NFL/INC/FBR (with others) at that time; cool guys, great releases, but rather low quality of the cracks and rather poor demos. Still the mention groups is to be respected, dont get me wrong here. ESI is one of the biggest groups ever, but personaly I can think of other groups that deservs a higher possition on the top groups charts, 1001 crew for example. They did ALOT of high quality cracks, not just open the sideborder and created ESCOS! ;-)
/Icon-REM

2007-05-15 16:28

Nightlord
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131

i think one should not worry too much about the "Top Groups" charts as it inherently has the "apples vs oranges" concept. It is just a side effect from the more sensible charts like "Top Cracker Groups" and "Top Demo Groups". Just my 2 cents

2007-05-15 18:10

Sixx

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229

I like apple-orange lemooooonade.

2007-05-15 22:00

Adam The Axe
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6

Let me put it another way... possibly there would not have been a scene if it hadn't been for ESI,UCF,DD and the sysop bbs's of the early 80's to 1988. I could list many many others but these were the early pioneers of the C64 and early IBM games. Demos were really the euro's thing because they couldn't get the games as fast as the americans so they couldn't crack as fast. The rule was, whoever put it out first got the credit, which is why the cracks were not that good. If you didn't get it out today, someone else was putting it out tomorrow. Most good groups had insiders in computer stores. Demos were what euros did to compensate for the lack of cracks. Some games were sent to DD, Fairlight,etc because of the lack of a good cracker. At one point, there were games coming out everyday, my group, which was anarchist and trading would send games to others in europe, like Robin,Radwar,Red Sector and even Triad to get cracks. Crest wasn't even a gleam in Mitch's eye and I'm sure they are good demo writers, but they were not about the scene when it was a scene. I can say the euros were the smartest young c64 composers of demos and music. Americans didn't do demos, we had the WAREZ! That's why I say there is only one #1, even though I hated all of them, they were what made the scene happen. Find anyone that was anyone from 1983 to 1988 and they will tell you the same. There was many facets to the scene, crackers,sysops,phreakers,black boxers,music,demos,anarchist, etc. Don't want to step on toes but I was there. I found this place recently because I was looking for an old friend in my group, his name was Popoo, so if anyone knows anything about him, let me know. Also, Popoo had the largest collection of C64 software of anyone, he never deleted a thing and had one of the largest BBS's around during that time. Talk to me.