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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
CSDb: quantify me
CSDb-based quantitative analyses of the C64 Scene
http://www.xentax.com/?page_id=235 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
ofcourse the scene is more than releases themselves. however, *csdb* is release centric. its not a social network type of thing, and it doesnt want to be at all. the main and primary reasons for the forums to exist is so things regarding *entries in the database* can be discussed.
unlike cnet, csdb is not the scene and doesnt want to be either :( |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: Jesus Oswald you really would argue with an empty room wouldnt you?
being as how you disagree, with my artist statement, would you like to point out who else was as prolific (except sarge) as cnet artists in the 86-88 period?
and while you are at it add up the output of just myself, dokk, Bob and sit and compare it against the graph?
i think you would find that us four alone account for a fair percentage of those stats.
Steve
Scoop (NL)? ;-)
1001 (NL) (yes, they also made lots and lots of onefile demos, just like CNet! 8)?
Judges (NL)?
SSS (precursor to Horizon)?
Fairlight (Swe)?
Come on, STE, Cnet was great and a great many wellknown and skilled guys had their start there, but they weren't the sole source for demos back then by far. Producing onefile... err one-SCREEN demos ("Crazy Comets Music Demo" isn't quite One-Der!) in a night or two was THE big thing back then everywhere c64s were used, not only on Cnet!... Which explains the large number of releases, and nothing else!
The more complex demos got, the fewer were released, it's as simple as that. And by definition, demos HAD to constantly become more complex, because technical advance is the nature of demomaking. There's no "it looks/sounds like shit, but the gameplay is great" joker card like with games, it's ALL about skills! OTOH, it's quite similar to games, cause by 1992 the times were also long gone where one sole guy made music, code and gfx for a well selling game in a month or two! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
on top of that.... i stopped by the end of 1989. and in retrospect, i hate me for doing just that. because shortly after demos finally became *really* interesting (ie, more than a pretty crack intro with stolen music) and took off to became what they are today. mid 80s demos almost always look almost silly compared to what happened later. (few exceptions, which we all know ofcourse). mapping the decline of releases directly to the decline of the scene is a really stupid idea indeed, since you cant compare those mid 80s productions to what people did in the 90s at all. |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: I think you guys are still misunderstanding what we're trying to get across.
It's not the Cnet was a massive userbase and produced every scene prod, it's that it did produce a lot AND pretty much everything else from everywhere else in the world got uploaded there, downloaded by everyone, spread from there to other countries. Just because you didn't see it because you weren't there didn't mean it didn't happen. It was the sheer number of new prods that everyone knew would get spread around all over the world that encouraged people to keep writing demos and start writing them.. Ok, it wasn't your experience buy don't try to tell those of us who did experience it that it wasn't the massive hub for demos/music/pictures that it was.
@Groepaz, sorry mate, you're mostly talking crap there. You talk about a prolific demo creator, point me at his page then say you didn't mean me to look at it to see how prolific he was? balls :P
As for all the crap about wannabe commercial sceners, more balls. It just happened that a lot of already commercial guys were on Cnet and we used to share code, talk about ways to do thing, get offered jobs. The fact that seems to have not happened to you guys isn't our or Cnet's fault. I got a career out if it eventually, as did a lot of other people, so now I'm not a true scener despite my output at the time? balls.
I've also done cracks, you should contact XXX of Talent/Ikari to ask him which cracks/tools for cracking I created for him. ;)
And you're not getting what we're trying to get across: That the demise of Cnet does *not* correlate with the demise of the demoscene (or its activity), and that Cnet neither was crucial to the popularity (or even spreading!) of onefile demos, nor did its demise have any influence in the activity of the demoscene as a whole.
It was really only the simple one-part demos that died out (cause nobody could show off his skills with this anymore after 1988!)... That's all there is to this curve!
I myself did not even HEAR about Cnet until the mid-Nineties IIRC (got my c64 in 1987). I did know Ash & Dave and Ian & Mic, but their demos were only a few in a huge collection...
Call it a precursor to the Internet or CSDb if you will, and just like this it was a breeding ground for good people and a good way to get your stuff out there.... But the same can be said about the BBS scene as a whole! |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting Groepaz *csdb* is release centric. its not a social network type of thing I disagree.
In fact i think we're all socially networking here right now. In fact, we even gather up pretty socially soon at the X party.
How much more social network can it get?
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
X (or any other party) has really nothing to do with csdb. the majority of people visiting X dont take part in this forum either (and the other way around). |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Yah yah, CSdB aint the scene. This is just a database. I know .. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
Seems to me that to try and pinpoint the scene to a specific location is useless, be it CSDb, CNet, Internet, or boozeparties like X, we don't seem to agree on it. But what we do have is raw data, and if robust, the data can tell us facts without having to resort to personal and subjective realms of judgement. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
only way to shut these guys up (who sound amazingly similar to the poms who still carry on about the 1966 world cup :) would be to pick a start date and battle to the death in an epic one file demo hi-score contest. We can all be the Steve Wiebe's to the evil, outdated, mullet loving Billy Mitchell's from SEMEN-NET.
Let's load up our 2x2's and get the pics flowing :D |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
That may be for another thread. By request, some of the gaps were filled in on the above 1986 Graphics data.
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