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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
The voting system is completely retarded
I just can't wrap my head around this unmitigated, pure crap we use for voting. Here's a situation where I actually have to vote waaaay lower than it deserves, in order to increase a release's rating.
This is simply ridiculous.
"Hey, this release is really cool, I'll give it a tenner."
"WTF, the rating got lower?!? Ok, maybe it counts as an illicit upvote and it is filtered with some clever algorythm, let's go with 9 then."
"Damn, now it's way lower than it would be without my vote. Maybe an 8 will help?"
"Nah, this is getting worse, but let's see what happens if I vote with a 7."
"Shit, still no good, I'll jump to an ever lower number just for the sake of experiencing more of this shit."
"Oh great, now we're getting somewhere, one more try."
"YEY! I love this release, so it will get a 6 from me." |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
I believe this id affected by how many votes there are in total. In Jailbirds example there are only 6 votes. I believe there is some kind of downvote/upvote shield involved. But what do I know? Let Perff explain again ( I think he did, many times). |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I simply adore how Jailbabe gets back to this issue periodically xD I sense that voting system follows some permutative behavioural patterns redefining integrity of linear structure that governs the subatomic surrounding of float point values. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Don't wanna piss anybody off, but JB, you're one of the top graphicians in the C64 scene. Dat booze design group you're a member of got some kind of "legendary" status, - EOD will be for all the 100-500 people around the globe who actually care about C64 seen as a "masterpiece" at least for the next couple of years. Why the heck do you feel the need to discuss CSDb voting algorithms? I don't get it. You're a great artist and tbh almost everybody - if not literally everybody still involved in this scene is at least a very decent artist / coder / whatever. Even when someone does a crap-release everyone already knows: a yeah, it's xxx probably drunk, but we all know he / she / it can do better. And if he / she / it doesn't do better, it's probably due to some facts like job, girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband, child(ren). So what? OMG you could "downvote" an entry with 6 votes to 8.7 (!)... I hope, we're all old enough to deal with that ;-) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting HedningI believe this id affected by how many votes there are in total. In Jailbirds example there are only 6 votes. I believe there is some kind of downvote/upvote shield involved. But what do I know? Let Perff explain again ( I think he did, many times).
Yeah, he explained it, and basically this algorithm only works if there is a really huge number of votes on a certain product. Which is quite rare here, as only the most popular stuff get enough ratings to actually show an (more or less) equitable result.
@Jammah & Spider: I come back to this topic because I think that the current voting system is utterly broken and it repeatedly fucks up stuff here. So someone should either fix it or ditch it. It's controversial, it's often demotivating and it regularly upsets people - whilst it doesn't even works as intended, at all. And it's not just me who is noticing this, there are numerous of angry posts on the forum which are dealing with the negative aspects of the current system. And this is going on for years and years and years, literally from the beginning of CSDb. No one seems to care. There were some half-assed tries to fix it, but that was about it...
Spider, it's not about me. It doesn't affects my artistic integrity per se, really. I can't remember the last time was I "downvoted", and the ratings I get are absolutely fair, more often even unrealistically generous.
Anyhow, I like to vote (I stand relatively high on the most active voters list, and I was always hoping that people will start to vote more and we'll sooner or later get objective charts), I'd like to see some legitimate compos here and I'd be interested in much more reasonable charts... Still, if it was up to me, I'd toss out the whole of it because it's totally meaningless in its present state.
But indeed, this dispute is almost two decades old, and nothing has changed. And I'm sure nothing ever will. So yeah, I neither do know why I am wasting my time here. |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
I recall uploading a bunch of FOE demos some years ago, and in the "top group" section, FOE was listed as #3, with a 9.0 rating. This was back in 2006.
I took a snapshot when I noticed it, but have no idea how to upload a photo here. If you want to see that image, just ask and I can email it to you.
Here's a link to the image :)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wtkd0uN5wy8qI4j_sSSFxfFVL1qjr.. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Haha anonymous voting cowards are Heros these days...
To me anonymous votes shouldn't be counted at all..
Secondly, we can also have a good laugh when having a look at all the creative fake name accounts on here... |
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Snabel
Registered: Aug 2015
Posts: 24 |
Fwiw i am with Mr. Bird on this one. What is the meaning of having downvote safety features if it breaks the voting system anyways? Just let ppl vote, calculate average and have a cold beer.
We all know when namevoting or downvoting is happening. It makes no sense to hide that fact from the mob, and especially not by obfuscating the result with obscene algorithms :D |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Yes I sometimes remove my vote, when it decreases the score. I suppose, this is not an intended user behaviour.
My suggestions: 1. Only releases with 50 and more votes should have calculated rating displayed, or 2. the recount of new rating should be made every 5 votes (so results of manipulation won't be visible immediately and thus giving less chances for manipulator to manipulate ;-). Or both. 3. The releases with less than 50 votes should have only Who vote what displayed. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
@Creamonimo: a quite huge percent of the releases or people wouldn't show up on the charts in that case.
Maybe it would work on the demo charts, but still, 50 is a very high number which is usually achieved during months, if not years.
Also, this would render impossible all those small internal compos which rely on CSDb's ratings this or another way.
The current system was an absolutely unfit answer to the rampart downvoting issue we had in the early days of this site, and it is based on IMDb, where it works because they have hundreds and thousands of votes for even the most trivial "releases". Here, a release or a person will get more than 30-40 votes only if they stand out from the crowd in some way, e. g. if they're particularly popular/good/bad/controversial.
We have about 0-15 votes for most of the stuff here, where a distributed rating system is overambitious and doesn't solve anything at all. It even makes things worse, as it's displaying inaccurate and confusing figures. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
so you ABuse the voting system to increase the release's rating and not to display your opinion about it. unanonymous upvota coward!
btw whats so super cool in this release ? removing every 2nd column from the system front is super easy. then claiming its a new screenmode, when it isnt? have you tried to run it and check what it really does? :) |
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