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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
scene activity
more and more i get the feeling that the my world (the scene) has become smaller and smaller. after a chat with the overkiller it was clear to me that the dutch scene isn't alive anymore and the italian scene either.
but what about the polish scene, the slovak scene and the german scene? how did the c64 survive through all the modern thinkings and technology?
sure as hell i bet the german scene survived because the pc-sceners adopted the c64 on their parties like mekka+symposium.....
drake |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
One way to tackle this "intermediate" level is to try to re-enact in ASM what the various Basic examples in the C64 Programmer's Reference Guide are doing. This might be too "slow" or lame for one's liking though..
..as one thing is how quickly one expects results; for example a tutorial might show how to enable multicolor bitmap mode in ASM quickly & easily, but in the long run it's better to understand the functions of the individual bits in $d011 & $d016.
Also, there's the issue of whether or not one has programmed before on other systems or languages. I wouldn't necessarily recommend starting on C64 at all (of course it kind of sucks if eventually C64 coding is what you want to do) but the understanding of problem solving & algorithms might be easier to develop on a higher level language. I'm sure knowledge of x86 or 680x0 ASM doesn't hurt either but of course I understand this is strictly speaking "wasted" time in regard to C64 programming..
I'm sure one highly beneficial thing would be to scan a lot of diskmags and convert the tutorials/articles to text or html for easier viewing, but this is of course quite a large effort.. |
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Pater Pi
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 121 |
Actually I just started to think of doing something like that when i wrote my last post.
I think i'll start collecting & copying some tuts and docs and put them online in a sort of sorted way in (near?) future.
Any help with articles about this and that are highly welcome!
(Everything needed, beginning from explaining Rasters to some high-level-effects)
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Shake
Posts: 133 |
Pi, have you checked http://asm.daper.net/
maybe with some advertisement and support it could make this site the place to be for tutorials, sources etc. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Hey Pi, you're not trying to reinvent the wheel, are you?
The Best C64 Ml tutorial collection |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quote: cadaver: the next step would be... unnecessary. All the info you need is already there (and then there's a shitload of other articles that'll teach you everything from scrollers to SHIFLI). The point is that you don't need tutorials: you have to do a lot of work on your own. However, if you don't want to learn, that's a problem, and no tutorial will ever solve that problem.
_You_ already know that, but there are others who might not be as enlightened.
So true. there seem to be a lot of people who are willing to be able to code well on the c64. but most of them seem to lack the patience and dedication needed for that and, in the end, stop developing their skills at a very early point.
The best way of learning for me always was to have a look at the routines in the monitor. yet, i was way younger, and, as graham put it, old men are too weak to code and use to booze and dig on women instead. consuming is easier than producing ;)
for the retard scene term: in my eyes, retard scene of course means only part of the c64 scene. it may (most likely) be an elitist expression, but yes, i do consider myself part of the c64 elite and i'm feeling ashamed being part of the c64 scene at all when seeing utter crap on the big screen. doesn't mean i'm too arrogant to explain effects to people asking me or even wanting to improve their coding skills, though. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
this is the weird thing, those who do good stuff
and want to improve themselves and the scene
become the bad guys, while the ones who make crap
that embarass the scene are the good guys who
shouldnt be picked on.
anyway, i have considered translating and typing
the programming articles bacchus wrote for dmz,
i found them rather useful when i started out.
i could also correct some of the errors the
progam listings contain and add some explanations
that i would have found useful.
but then, most of the things can be read about
in programmers reference guide and probably
in a bunch of other articles on the net.
this is the difference, my only source for help
was computer magazines and the few books available
at the library, now you can leech quite a few
books from the net.
and usually when someone asks me for help to get
started, they ask once, i provide some information
and then i never hear anything from them again.
i wonder how many that are interested enough to
actually try and do something. i somehow doubt
that the big crowd of newcomers who are scared
away because of the evilness and elitism actually
exists |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
>>>"this is the weird thing, those who do good stuff
and want to improve themselves and the scene
become the bad guys, while the ones who make crap
that embarass the scene are the good guys who
shouldnt be picked on."<<<
Yup. But then, let's criticise groups/individuals who make and release/released fake demos in compos at parties. Why do we always slag on sort-of serious but crappy releases instead of pointing out that 4 of 8 releases at another german party were made in basic by some retard people who think they are so funny.
How about making a general agreement for future parties compo organisers about pre-selection in compos. Not allowing fake releases in compos at all. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
>Why do we always slag on sort-of serious but crappy >releases instead of pointing out that 4 of 8 releases at >another german party were made in basic by some retard >people who think they are so funny.
because most elitist sceners cant find any significant difference between the two types? |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 461 |
> this is the weird thing, those who do good stuff
> and want to improve themselves and the scene
> become the bad guys
There is a not-so-slight difference between struggling to improve yourself and thinking that you're on a mission to improve other people. The latter often leads to being highly intolerant. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
Quote: >Why do we always slag on sort-of serious but crappy >releases instead of pointing out that 4 of 8 releases at >another german party were made in basic by some retard >people who think they are so funny.
because most elitist sceners cant find any significant difference between the two types?
There is a difference. The ones are having so much fun in (and of) the scene while the others are taking criticism extremely seriously. We usually tend to accept fun-makers like people who are cool so we even don't care about criticising them while we can't stop ourselves of criticising people who are oversensitive about their releases.
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