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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Evaluating the moderation of CSDb
I think it's time to evaluate how the moderation of CSDb is going. Good/bad?.. Anyone?
Something just struct my eye. I just saw the "moderation rules" thread (started by Oswald) being closed for no obvious reason (Ok, Steppe said - "close thread?" or something). I disagree in such an approach to moderation. The moderator should not close a thread unless it's going really bad, and warnings have been issued; furthermore I think moderators who personally participate in a discussion should be rendered powerless over moderating that particular discussion. Furthermore, when closing a thread, I think a reason for doing so should be given..
Oh, and this is not supposed to be another "bitching" topic. I'd like to call and everybody interested to state their thoughts. Good AND bad. Not just bad, please!.. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1105 |
according to a moderator there are many people in favor of deleting posts a lot, but yet, I practically never see them post here.
it's a bit hard to discuss proper moderation if the big group of delete-happy users don't state their arguments here and join in on the discussion.
all I've seen is Oswald saying that if his posts get deleted, others should be deleted too. which, imo, is a negative argument. if you didnt delete oswald posts in the first place, he wouldn't cry about other posts, correct? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
I expected this will happen and I think I've told that cleary enough to Perff in chats over ICQ even before he implemented moderation. The public discussion about how moderation, moderators, moderated, removed, edited posts etc. is another way of how forum can be abused. Some people will never stop finding ways how to go around the rules and doubt everything. That is the way it is.
Sincerely, I would rather like if Perff had grown to evil bitch and made moderation all himself, but it won't happen anytime soon. Moderation team consists of people with various motivation and background. With various experiecne and various level of assertivity. In my case it's not the first site I'm moderating but it certainly the worst moderated site I've ever seen. Too much moderators. Too many direct involvement. Moderators taking sides in the problem. It's because moderators raised from the users. We are one of you. And that is the problem. ;-) Everyone thinks that we can still continue discussions with all those former users who are now mods. We can argue with them, giving better arguments, raise questions, make judgements and conclusions. Yes. You some user are sure wiser than mods. So they can and probably will succesfully kick some serious moderator butt everytime they will have chance...
Do you now understand why I think that moderation shouldn't be discussed? Of course you are right. Moderators shouldn't be too biased towards their prefferences. But that's why there are moderators coming from different backgroundds. We watch each other. And Perff (charismatic evil admin in the training and future sole moderator of this site) sees evertyhing what we do too.
I'm really not afraid of discussing moderation and censorship of posts with anyone here. Yes it will probably sometimes happen. But try to understand that when some dumbass will complaint about his post (e.g. some stupid insults to Laxity) being censored. I will censor his thread and don't even bother to contact him. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: according to a moderator there are many people in favor of deleting posts a lot, but yet, I practically never see them post here.
it's a bit hard to discuss proper moderation if the big group of delete-happy users don't state their arguments here and join in on the discussion.
all I've seen is Oswald saying that if his posts get deleted, others should be deleted too. which, imo, is a negative argument. if you didnt delete oswald posts in the first place, he wouldn't cry about other posts, correct?
Good point. Moderation shouldn't be strict. Moderators shoudln't be forced to keep the restrictive rules 100%. They need freedom to choose which post to censor according to their experience and good will. They also need to have free choice whenever there is not exact rule about some problem. Fman's post for example. It wasn't dirrect attack towards other users, but it had some general accusations of csdb users that were based on subjective experience with the users (over IRC) and that doesn't belong to public forum at all. Important about this is. That I didn't lock that thread, nor I didn't censor that post. But I agree with the moderators who did it based on reasons I said above. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1105 |
Quote: Good point. Moderation shouldn't be strict. Moderators shoudln't be forced to keep the restrictive rules 100%. They need freedom to choose which post to censor according to their experience and good will. They also need to have free choice whenever there is not exact rule about some problem. Fman's post for example. It wasn't dirrect attack towards other users, but it had some general accusations of csdb users that were based on subjective experience with the users (over IRC) and that doesn't belong to public forum at all. Important about this is. That I didn't lock that thread, nor I didn't censor that post. But I agree with the moderators who did it based on reasons I said above.
all I see is that the moderating team is making bad decisions over and over again. and now you want "freedom to choose which post to censor". oh please.
when the mods start to act like real moderators, instead of some delete-happy bunch not willing to explain their ways and not giving any arguments on the things Laxity, The Dark Prince and me have raised, you should all be fired.
we're not in North Korea, you know. who the hell made you dictator? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: all I see is that the moderating team is making bad decisions over and over again. and now you want "freedom to choose which post to censor". oh please.
when the mods start to act like real moderators, instead of some delete-happy bunch not willing to explain their ways and not giving any arguments on the things Laxity, The Dark Prince and me have raised, you should all be fired.
we're not in North Korea, you know. who the hell made you dictator?
;-)
Perff made me a dic...eee... moderator.
So you want to fire me? No problem feel free to ask me to quit. I'll do that.
I don't have problem with saying what I think and how things should be done. It's not a theory. All my thoughts raise from my praxe from sites which have thousands of users and hundreds of posts a day. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Again, what Burglar said.
Also putting yourself in some kind of victim-role ("yes, we're mods and sceners too but we have to moderate naughty people, sorry") doesn't do good either.
Being a mod AND a scener is a good thing. You should know how a scener thinks and does and you, as moderators, should understand that and tune your moderation to it.
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1105 |
Quote: ;-)
Perff made me a dic...eee... moderator.
So you want to fire me? No problem feel free to ask me to quit. I'll do that.
I don't have problem with saying what I think and how things should be done. It's not a theory. All my thoughts raise from my praxe from sites which have thousands of users and hundreds of posts a day.
and yet, you still didn't respond to any of my arguments. you choose to keep hiding behind "oh but I've been a moderator at other sites, so I always know the right thing".
I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than that, so far I've only seen the following responses:
- I was/am a moderator at another site, so I rock and I always know whats best.
- Evaluating a moderation-team is useless.
- We delete everything we want, but we do not explain ourselves.
I have not seen a single accurate argument coming from any of the moderators. This behavior will eventually result in a division between users and moderators.
This is not Birma/Myanmar, guys. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: and yet, you still didn't respond to any of my arguments. you choose to keep hiding behind "oh but I've been a moderator at other sites, so I always know the right thing".
I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than that, so far I've only seen the following responses:
- I was/am a moderator at another site, so I rock and I always know whats best.
- Evaluating a moderation-team is useless.
- We delete everything we want, but we do not explain ourselves.
I have not seen a single accurate argument coming from any of the moderators. This behavior will eventually result in a division between users and moderators.
This is not Birma/Myanmar, guys.
I've mentioned / explained things about internal organisation of moderator team that you have chosen not to mention and ignore. It seems that you are also picking whatever you consider important for your argument.
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
There might be problems involved with the moderation, I dunno. Maybe they are a little too picky and I can agree that it feels a little odd sometimes to find that some post is removed, making it a bit hard to follow the discussion as whole, and such things.
BUT(T), I must say that this place has become a little more sane and calm since moderation was introduced. In any case I prefer the current order to the fucked up chaos before the holy moderators hit this place. I don't see anyone being threatened by the moderators really. Just add good shit, discuss on-topic stuff in the forums (and by that I mean c64-related rather than who-killed-who-and-who-got-the-biggest-cru-stuff) and everything is fine. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1105 |
Quote: I've mentioned / explained things about internal organisation of moderator team that you have chosen not to mention and ignore. It seems that you are also picking whatever you consider important for your argument.
ok, I'll add this then:
- we only discuss stuff internally, we do not say what we are discussing and we don't share the conclusions of those internal discussions either.
happy now?
this is not Iran, you know. |
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