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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
How to use +60k expansion
Yep, as easy as that.
How do I address that extra ram?
(In fact I'm more planning to build a +60k compatible expansion, but that's another story. It's easier for me to build stuff if I know how they are supposed to work...) |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
You might get some clues from the way it is emulated.
(there's a descriptive comment in the beginning)
http://vice-emu.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/vice-emu/trunk/vice/..
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
it may be offtopic but maybe you'd rather consider something GEOram like?
It is VERY simple, easyly supports 512KB up to 2MB, is 100% emulated and there are modern schematics with nowadays ICs for a batterey buffered version (NEOram).
Also people (me :) still/again code for it.
Just my 2 cents.
Also see here, hehe:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=enthusi+maniac+mans.. |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 411 |
AAY64 to the rescue :) |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Thank you ninja!
Wonder why I haven't found that page earlier...
Now I'll just make up some nice ideas how to make the most out of this.
Or perhaps hack my c128 to be able to play +60k with the built in chips...
Sorry enthui, I can't waste the $dexx space. |
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 299 |
A bit off topic I guess but I suppose that actually Action Replay / Retro Replay internal ram is most popular memory expansion. Not useful if $dexx memory can't be used but anyway I though it was worth mentioning here as it must be more popular than +60k. It's also trivial to use. |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Sure, I have 1541u and IDE64.
I mostly use the second one, where $dexx is occupied by lots of io-stuff like ethernet, usb and whatnot.
$d100 for enabling +60k is simple enough.
Then I have lots of free io-space to implement page selection too. The only problem is that I don't know if my cdpld (3064) is powerful enough to do that stuff. I could use more... But a +60k is easily done in one chip. (plus memory, or the built in memory of a c128) |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
may I ask: what software are you going to use which takes advantage of the +60k? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quoting hevosenlihaSure, I have 1541u and IDE64.
1541u already has a REU inside with 16 MB RAM, and 1541u also has Retro Replay cartridge emulation which has 32 kB of RAM.
I don't see why you need that +60k expansion.
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quoting grahamI don't see why you need that +60k expansion.
My guess is: for the fun of it :) |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: may I ask: what software are you going to use which takes advantage of the +60k?
turbo assembler |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: Quoting hevosenlihaSure, I have 1541u and IDE64.
1541u already has a REU inside with 16 MB RAM, and 1541u also has Retro Replay cartridge emulation which has 32 kB of RAM.
I don't see why you need that +60k expansion.
I can't use the 1541u at the same time as the ide64...
for me the 1541u is nothing but a floppy emulator. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Why not use a PC crossassembler and 1541u ethernet to transfer the assembled code directly to C64?
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: Why not use a PC crossassembler and 1541u ethernet to transfer the assembled code directly to C64?
mainly because my 1541u doesn't have ethernet.
but my ide64 has usb, and that way I can mount the pc right away, browsing the pc in the wonderful file manager built into ide64, just hit enter on the newly compiled file and it's started in a second.
yep, that's the thing with ide64, it makes the good old computer behave like a modern computer.
for me the 1541u is nothing but a floppy emulator for compatibility with old/bad stuff, which may not work on my c128 anyway.
turbo assembler is way better to work in than my slow asus eee pc 900 with too small keys...
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
old/bad stuff? Basically everything with an IRQ-loader needs a 1541 emulation. Has nothing to do with old or bad but with the inability of the standard C64 kernal to do anything else during loading.
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
sure, that's "bad" stuff, relying on the irq loader.
check covert bitops loadersystem, with fallback to "kernel" routines if current device isn't an IEC one.
It's like releasing a simple multipart prod that require an ide64 just because I don't want to include an irq loader. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
You can't do a "kernal fallback" in a trackmo. |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
And the real point with a trackmo is what?
Extra space? I don't buy that one.
Not that 1541u is a bad thing, it's good at what it's doing.
But how good are floppies anyway? ;)
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
The point of trackmos is that there are no loading breaks and all the loading is done while stuff is happening on the screen. |
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Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
...At least the main advantage trackmos had over normal "screen goes blank and/or flashes while loading- demos" was to have something shown in the meanwhile.
Unfortunately most trackmos ever made featured dull loading screens and stale design to cover up for the need to fetch data. :P
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
"sure, that's "bad" stuff, relying on the irq loader."
c64 standard for running stuff is: 1 c64 with 1 1541, and that will not change to ide64 or whatever until the end of the world. No support for rare HW, right.
"But how good are floppies anyway? ;)"
how good is using 82 hardware in 2009 anyway? you should consider doing stuff on pc. :)
"for me the 1541u is nothing but a floppy emulator for compatibility with old/bad stuff"
so c64 software for you == old/bad stuff ? really go for pc then ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
gotta love that "it doesnt use kernal so its bad" babble from ide64 fanboys =)
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 299 |
Quote: turbo assembler
Not to be the one who criticizes all ideas but have you checked out:
1. Turbo Macro Pro with REU support
2. TASM ROM for RR/MMC Replay
3. Extra ROM with TASM for C128
There are many options that are quite useful if you want to code on the real thing. Unless you are coding for C128 strictly or C64 with +60kb you'r executable code with data will never exceed 64kb limit anyway so all above options look interesting.
As for C128 take a look at MMU registers. If you are coding in C128 mode than you can use it probably to simulate memory expansion.
Just my 2 cents... |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
been coding for ages on a c128 in 64 mode, using lynchbit's TASM hack which compiled into the 64k VDC chip which is visibile in 64 mode, and then you can swap object<->src memory. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quoting Oswaldlynchbit's TASM hack which compiled into the 64k VDC chip which is visibile in 64 mode, and then you can swap object<->src memory Cool, didn't know this was possible. Where can I find info on how this works? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
VDCAsm-128 V1.0
read the note file in the release.
btw there was a v2 version iirc which is missing from csdb... |
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 299 |
Quote: been coding for ages on a c128 in 64 mode, using lynchbit's TASM hack which compiled into the 64k VDC chip which is visibile in 64 mode, and then you can swap object<->src memory.
Good point. The same can be done with TMP + REU (not to mention the possibility of connecting 2 c64's together to run code on one and keep source on the other - looking at prices of CMB machines today not something impossible for even a poor coder). |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: The point of trackmos is that there are no loading breaks and all the loading is done while stuff is happening on the screen.
You can do that with files too.
And in a way that is compatible with "exotic" hardware.
Even I have made that, and look at my coding "skills" ;)
Feedspister has music and scroll while loading the parts, from both floppy and ide64, and probably any available kernel patched turboloaders.
Why not use a decent open source turboloader that works with "everything"? |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: Not to be the one who criticizes all ideas but have you checked out:
1. Turbo Macro Pro with REU support
2. TASM ROM for RR/MMC Replay
3. Extra ROM with TASM for C128
There are many options that are quite useful if you want to code on the real thing. Unless you are coding for C128 strictly or C64 with +60kb you'r executable code with data will never exceed 64kb limit anyway so all above options look interesting.
As for C128 take a look at MMU registers. If you are coding in C128 mode than you can use it probably to simulate memory expansion.
Just my 2 cents...
REU doesn't work with ide64 :(
I've looked at some available roms for 1541u, but I haven't found anything that beats ide64 to work with.
My VDC is only 16k.
So I have the options to build +60k (3 chips including memory) or expanding the VDC ram if I want to keep my ide64.
Or crosscompiling on pc, loading the stuff over USB with ide64 drivers, as easy as "compile on pc" and "press enter" on c64. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 162 |
REU does work with ide64 just fine, just get yourself module port extender and more juicy powersupply...
edit: with C128 powersupply you just need moduleport extender, its powerfull enough to run ide64+1541U together. |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
Quote: REU does work with ide64 just fine, just get yourself module port extender and more juicy powersupply...
edit: with C128 powersupply you just need moduleport extender, its powerfull enough to run ide64+1541U together.
???
I was totally convinced they used the same IO space...
I just need to get (build?) a port expander then... |
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 299 |
Quote: ???
I was totally convinced they used the same IO space...
I just need to get (build?) a port expander then...
This work just the same way the Retro Replay can use REU - just need a decent port expander (not all are suitable!). I don't have ide64 but I guess REU registers are not in conflict with other hardware (as stated above). And if you like to work further on C128 I'd expand VDC to full 64kb. Also RRNet is quite nice for cross compiling. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 162 |
REU maps itself to df00-dfff and ide64 de00-deff so theres no conflict. You just need to disable cart support from 1541U and enable REU to get it working with ide64.
I've been using TMP PRO REU and its awesome, combined with ide64 loading speed and REU memory to hold sources, its a great help :) Sources stay in REU bank as long you don't powercycle your c64, you can even watch demos / play games and your sources are still there ;) (or course no-one should do this, but I wanted to try.. :) |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
My old development system looks like this: C128DB with REU and RR hooked upped using an expander I bought at Ebay. And of course TMP+REU, which is one, if not THE best TurboAss on C64 one can ever imagine. Peroid. |
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hevosenliha
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 48 |
I repaired my broken c64, it was the memory.
Now it's using a simm module, so I have no reason not build a +60k expansion, just for fun.
I'm thinking of some kind of hi/lo banking, 16+16 pages, fits nicely in the byte after +60k.
One nybble for low page, and one for the high page.
Depending on what my cpld chips can handle it might be finer grained than that, able to map any bank to any location.
The best would be 256 4k banks, but I don't think my cpld would make it, so I have to go for larger banks.
Or use more cpld chips...
http://mumu21.se/img/3858/cms443-bild.jpg |
