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2021-10-24 04:56

ZIG

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 37

Coding Habits

Ok, so this is a super random question, but I would like to know how the 'high performance' demo coders approach coding nowadays - from a time management perspective.

What I am asking is, how do you balance work and democoding?

How much time would you spend coding in a week? Do you spend big chunks of time or just an hour here and there?

How effective would you be in a sitting? Like, how long does it take you to get into your code and what kind of results would you regularly get?

Finally, how much time would you spend 'experimenting' - say fooling around with an effect you are thinking doing one day of vs production of finished demos/intro etc in a given week/month etc?

Sorry to ask such weird questions, but I feel a bit stuck in making progress on coding right now with so many commitments and I just want to see if there are different ways, or maybe I am just sloooow. Good old ADHD at work. :(

Anyways, thx!
Zig/

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2021-11-09 16:05

Mixer

Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422

I am always impressed and envious of the productivity of other demo coders. I am extremely slow and spend a lot of time thinking stuff before doing anything. Also, I have trouble finalizing parts/music etc. One day I may create a proof of concept or a partial piece of music, the next day I start another one, or a new version of the previous one. Very few things I do ever become complete and published. My PC is full of unfinished c-64 demo parts, other projects and musical compositions. Perhaps the end product is not that important to me once I've proven myself that something can/can't be done, or that I've got the idea down. It also causes stress. I've got a too much of unfinished business, though it does not really matter to anyone else. F.ex I've worked on the parts of Void Mind for way too long, and every part is now at least 5th version of the original effect, and all I really need to do to finish it is to change the loader and compose the soundtrack. It'll be ready by 2050. In contrast to that, I also program professionally, but I've got no problem getting things off my hands in that context.

2021-11-09 18:58

Pex Mahoney Tufvesson

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 50

I do loads of thinking when not sitting in front of any computer. Counting clock cycles and optimizing code "in my head". Which means, at the moment I get to the computer for demo coding, I spend most time writing that code that I already know how it looks. People wonder why I go silent and blank sometimes... ;) I spend very short intervals with coding, sometimes as short fragments as 5-15 minutes, so a text file with every detail written down for bigger projects is a must. So, a short coding session looks like: Reading my notes if I don't know "what's next", start coding/composing/whatever - and if I get new ideas, jot them down into my text logfile. In this text file, the letter § is magic - that's where I am. Everything above that char is "done", everything below that char is "todo". This structure I use in all projects I've done the last 30 years. Without knowing it, there's a similar structure called "orgmode", go find it on internet if you want to know more.

I have no c64-routines "in stock". I kind of only write stuff that I has a dedicated party/purpose. Well, apart from that X'20 greetingspart for the next Performers-demo, but that's still in the pipeline.

I try to complete a demo in as short time as possible. I don't have the stamina of Trap/Bob/lft/Raistlin/HCL or the "coding at work"-possibility as Bitbreaker/THCM/JackAsser. And I don't commute. There is no 100-hour-demo in my life. Storebror was done in approximately 40 hours.

Nowadays there is no "night coding" for me either. I'm doing research stuff at work, and that kind of occupies the same part of my brain that does c64-demos. So coding time per week: 0. For an Performers-X-demo I guess in total there's some 30-50 hours of coding in it for me.

That's life. Sometimes there's some C64 in it, some periods there's just not. So by now I've forgotten all about that yet-to-be-released Performers-greetings-part for X'20 - I did write some 100kB of Python code for it, modified the Vice source code in a virtual Ubuntu image I've got lying around somewhere, my sprite-multiplexer works "almost", and there's some SID bugs still. But, it will kick ASS when it's done. Someday. For the next X, I guess. Inspiration is kind of low until then. Write as many Performers-bashing-demos you want - we'll be back when the time is right. There's plenty of gob-smacking-moments yet-to-come!

2021-11-10 15:36

Mibri

Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 197

Quoting Pex Mahoney Tufvesson

we'll be back when the time is right. There's plenty of gob-smacking-moments yet-to-come!

Good!!!

2021-11-10 16:32

HCL

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716

I'm looking back at my glorious days when i also coded my demos at work.. but the last 10 years or so, i have not had that possiblilty. So it's a struggle to find some coding time inbetween kids and family biz, and that really drives me mad.

Coding at work is just so great! It's perhaps the best thing you can do! I don't know why.. but perhaps because it's the time of the day when you are the most awake. Also you can get that adrenaline kick of "what if someone finds out".. I tend to work very effectively since you never know how much time you will get, it might be over any minute.

Sometimes i can still do some kind of coding at work, but then it is restricted to maybe some python scripting to generate or convert stuff.. but for me, coding demo parts often involves doing some graphics, or trying out timing or stuff on the emulator, which requires tools that i can not easily have..

2021-11-11 02:39

Slajerek

Registered: May 2015
Posts: 62

Yeah, as others said it is hard to find time. Normally it is like now: so after 10 hours of work, then driving a car to family for a long weekend 4 hours, finally it's 2am and kid with wife went to sleep and considering that we have a bank holiday tomorrow, thus finally some time for me.

In most cases anyway when I start doing pure asm C64 stuff like now, I realise that there's something to change in the C64 Debugger, like bugs, ideas, whatever else and actually it takes ages to do something at least acceptable. Plus I know that I need to wake up quite early to achieve all bricks in the Lego2 game together with my daughter tomorrow ;>

Fun fact is that the best time for coding were long trips I used to have, a lot of nice ideas came about 30k feet above the ground, with cool clouds view outside the plane. Some draft coding was done there.

2021-11-16 18:31

map

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 27

After not finding a proper timerslot for C64 activity alongside a demanding job and family for a long time, I came up with the following idea:

Since I am often too tired/wasted in the evening I go to sleep early and set my alarmclock to ~2:30h in the morning once a week.
This gives enough time for a quick breakfast and few hours of peaceful free time to continue on some of the projects, before family wakes up again and daily work kicks in again.

It was working for me for about three month in sequence, before the 'Summerbreak' started.

2021-11-17 09:10

TPM

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109

Having a busy fulltime job, freelance work, family, kids, running 4 hours a week and a social life.. it's hard to spend time to produce anything concrete. I have a small fun project, started last year and still not finished yet. But i still do have the ambitions and love for the scene and C64. Even after 25 years being "inactive".

2021-11-17 17:38

mankeli

Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 110

Before the kids I basically programmed demo stuffs from end of workday into the night, arrived at work really late and slept most of the day. (always negotiated sofa for the workroom :D)

This was ofcourse only when a demo was "in production", so several weeks and getting more and more HC closer to party.

Nowadays the similar happens but it's not really feasible sustainably anymore as parental intervention is usually required on evenings and early mornings. So max few nights in a row.

This has changed the type of productions I do, usually just a few-night small prods.

..But seeing how lots of C64 gubbes have gotten back to demo programming recently (presumably because their children have became somewhat self-sufficient), I'm hopeful that these days are waiting for me too!

2021-11-18 09:54

ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1378

Quoting ZIG

What I am asking is, how do you balance work and democoding?

Haha I don't really. I get far more demo coding done between contracts than when I'm in the middle of a stint of working 9-5.

As for time spent, it varies a lot. If an idea takes hold (I call it 'getting a brainworm') it'll be at least at the back of my mind night and day, usually just thinking about it, but sometimes writing little snippets of asm or prototyping data exporters in Python, either at breaks at work, or wherever I may be.

For a lot of effects, this is where I stop - I've way more effects that I've worked out how to implement than ones that I've managed to find time to turn into part of a polished demo.

If I actually start implementing something, then longer sessions become more useful. But even as an often self employed person with no kids, juggling demo coding time vs time spent on work and family still takes some negotiating and communication, so I don't *just* work on things at home in the afternoon. Sometimes I'll take my laptop off to MacDonalds or a pub for a few hours in the afternoon, other times I wake up at 3am and spent a few hours coding on the couch in the dark. Definitely easier to have at least some dedicated coding time vs time being 'present' - once I get in the zone I tend to be a bit hard to reach for anyone in the same room, or conversely if I'm focusing on being around for people I can do bits of setup or idea research but I can't turn code inside out or track down insidious bugs.

If there's a demo competition coming up that I'm prepping an entry for, I'll mark out some calendar time for the last two days before the event to hide in the corner for most of each day, but in the preceding weeks I just do half hour or so stints here and there, plus whatever insomnia frees up.

2022-01-05 23:32

Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421

I've managed to squeeze in about 2-3 hours every evening from ~9 to ~12pm for the last 3 years, coding almost 100% productively in that time (with almost no interruptions).
I completely avoid mixing in C64 stuff during the work day, even though it happens on the same desk these days (but not the same computer!). It's certainly better that way.

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