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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Event id #2416 : First CSDB "Unintended OpCode coding competition"
Just wanted to make my new compo idea more visable to the audience:
First CSDb "Unintended OpCode coding competition"
(unintended opcode coding competition)
Feedback welcome! |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 438 |
Yay! Neat idea, however I am against the rules of what the demo must contain, i.e. sprites, 1x1 scroll, PETASCII etc. Would it not be better if that stuff was optional? Just keep the focus on the code ;-) |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Thank you for your opinion.
Let me explain my thoughts:
At first the restrictions are not really restrictive and hard to fulfill. Sprites and credits/scroller resemble common elements in demoparts and so are easily justified.
Contrary PETSCII is not really common in demoparts, but it has a long tradition in C64 demomaking and could maybe serve as something like the corporate design for all contributions of this compo.
At second i would like to have some common elements between different contributions so
1st) They are better comparable
2nd) One can see how different coders deal with these elements
3rd) There is reference to this compo, there are credits
4th) there is at least some screen sub-division making it look not too bulky |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508 |
Will there be extra kudos for proper use of TAS/LAS? :-D Will it be necessary to deliver also sourcecode? |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Its up to the competitor to make clear what's so special about his contribution. There is no rule to publish source but for some codep0rn project it would maybe be the best solution to make it understandable to the audience.
Proper use of LAS/TAS will be revarded by hugs and (schlabber)kisses from Monte Carlos himself. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 438 |
I'd say source code is a must. Otherwise we won't learn anything ;-) |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Nah, just disassemble it if you want to know how it works. Codepr0n is only pr0n in its binary form. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
Well, the rules state that 'your' opcode must be crucial for the part. Without a comment such as 'I use SHIT to convert colors to frequency tables' its kinda pointless. |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Well, subtile efforts will not get the deserved reward if nobody knows whats going on behind the scenes. Therefore i would strongly recommend thinking about publishing sources or at least add some explaining words. Anyway it's too early to change the rules so this will stay as a recommendation.
It's you who want to get high votes.
The rulez state:
The demo must
- show a main effect which uses UOCs
- must have a relation to UOCs in everything even if it's heavily constructed
- emphasize on coding and the main effect
They leave room for other art than coding although the focus should be on the main effect using UOCs and the coding.
However, the part should be rated for the coding efforts and overusing of design elements may lead to unclear situations where one does not know if the vote applies to a good logo or music theme instead of the code.
Therefore the second restriction was added so that everything in the part is related to UOCs.
Of course there's the phrase "heavily contructed" which means, you must not use UOCs for every design element but you should somehow make a connection to UOCs.
For example you could do a main effect using UOCs and a banner stating "me hates UOCs" or "saxalolax". Be creative.
Everything which is not explicitly forbidden is allowed.
Please make the demo as a one screener which i meant as beeing also a one parter.
If the compo will have a good resonance, i would be willing to rise a second compo. In this case, extreme parts, like all border sprite multiplexer, which leave no room for anything else, could be submitted then.
Have in mind that this is the first compo concerning UOCs and if it's not perfect there will be room for improvement in some following compo. Don't take every misunderstanding of compo rules too serious.
I really look forward seeing the first submissions.
Very curious Monte Carlos |
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soci
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 481 |
Rules are meant to be broken ;)
Might as well wait a few iterations until this compo is fully debugged ;) |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Politics is the best example how to interpret rules most extended ...
Soci: Please do not wait, if you have a good idea fitting into this compo ;-) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
i sort of like the idea but the rules... nah, they're more frustrating than trying to get something interesting going with UOCs in the first feckin' place! i think i'll go sit with soci and wait to see if the rules get simplified before writing any more code. |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
I look very positively forward regarding this compo as the discussion signals principal interest of the CSDB community.
Despite this there is a little bit frustration about the rules which is shared by several members.
Of course my interest is a lively competition and therefore i though about simplification of the restrictions.
To avoid changing the rules again and again i post my new proposal here so that everybody can give feedback within the next three days. Then i'll work through the critiques, find a compromise and fix the new rules permanently.
new rulez
The Demo must
- make heavy use of NMOS6510 unintended opcodes and gain profit from the extended instruction set
- emphasize on coding and the main effect
- be onescreen and onefile
- include the credits and reference to csdb and this compo
- be runable on a stock c64
- be startable with the "run" command
The demo may
- use also other elements like sprites/grafics/music but they should not be as dominant as the
the main effect
- use material from some CSDB competition before, preferably which is unused else.
- show a simple text screen (without any other elements) with explanation directly after run from which you turn to the main part using space.
There must be some explanation of where, how and for what the UOCs have been used and what advantage you get over normal ops.
Additional information which does not fit on a single textscreen can be supported in a readme.txt or using the CSDB. You may write prose or include the explanation as a commented source.
In this case not every opcode should be documented but only the essential parts. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
That looks a lot easier to deal with at least to me and i have about an idea and a half now.
The only "worry" i've got is "use also other elements like sprites/grafics/music but they should not be as dominant as the the main effect" because how do you call that? With the winner being decided by CSDb vote there are always going to be people scoring on other elements apart from the code... |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
I can understand this although i had another idea:
What is about parts which needs some grafics? For example
sprite multiplexers need sprites which are probably drawn by a grafician, 7 sprites over fli needs an example picture or texture mapped cubes needs textures.
How do we distinguish unneccessary design from essential one? Wheres the limit?
Thats why i allowed these things generally.
Could you live with some unconvential solution, for example voting every contribution with 10 as bad as it could be?
Then we could make a competition without pressure of getting good votes and just profiling from the comments of other users?
This would also circumvent the situation of genious invention presented in a small area on an otherwise empty screen. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1933 |
T.M.R. - just write on screen that you "UOC" is used on 51% of the rastertime and the digi sound is only at about 10% :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting Monte CarlosI can understand this although i had another idea:
What is about parts which needs some grafics? For example
sprite multiplexers need sprites which are probably drawn by a grafician, 7 sprites over fli needs an example picture or texture mapped cubes needs textures.
How do we distinguish unneccessary design from essential one? Wheres the limit?
Even if design is necessary there's no guarantee that people voting will be able to distinguish it from the UOC-powered effect... but my worry is that, even if you're not planning to police this too closely, it could still flag someone's hard work as a "false positive".
The only way to remove the issue is to either be reasonably sure that people vote for elements you want them to by selecting a panel of judges or, because it's a fun compo, not worrying about it; the winner will, ultimately, be the person with the most impressive code even if the votes here don't reflect that. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting Count ZeroT.M.R. - just write on screen that you "UOC" is used on 51% of the rastertime and the digi sound is only at about 10% :)
Yeah, because nobody is going to be delving around the source or anything... oh, hang on. =-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
btw, could we call it - as it is better known by this name - illegal opcode ? UOC makes my brain hurt :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11387 |
imho this compo only makes sense if a (well commented) source is mandatory... else you can just call it "onefile demo compo" :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting Oswaldbtw, could we call it - as it is better known by this name - illegal opcode ? UOC makes my brain hurt :)
i think i usually default to "pseudo" rather than "illegal", possibly because that's the name i heard first when the Mad Mekon was explaining the basics to me around thirty years ago and i suddenly feel painfully old! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
I learned them as 'forbidden codes' (from hungarian) |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
I'm used to the name "illegal opcodes". However, i like UOCs the best as
1.) they are not "forbidden"
2.) they are not "illegal"
3.) they are not "pseudo".
It's just that UOC reflects their origin the best although it sounds a little bit academical. By the way, i think that Groepaz had this in mind too, when he wrote that "no more secrets" article. |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 466 |
What about "undocumented opcodes"?
Before Groepaz... obviously.
=P |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
So let's call it "(Obviously) 'before' Groepaz Undocumented OpCodes Competition" - in short: ObGUOCC, probably it won't hurt Oswalds brain anymore after his brain exploded =P |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
frankly this is the first time I hear the term "UOC", but you go with whatever you like :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11387 |
or we could name them "mostly useless opcodes except lax/sbx" :) |
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Rastah Bar
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 336 |
How about
Bonus inStructions for COMmodore Programmers (BS COMP) ? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
I've learned some shit about digital networks, these instructions come from the so called 'dont care' states. so lets call 'em dont care opcodes :) DCO! |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 361 |
Dear fellows,
three days are over now in which i promised to think over the rulez. Therefore i would like to initiate this
challenge a second time.
I opened a new event because as the rules changed the old entry is not valid anymore.
Thank you for all this feedback. I hope you can live with the rules this time which i try to be a compromise of all your advices.
Here is the new event enty:
First CSDb "Unintended OpCode Coding Challenge" |
