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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Release id #49248 : Presence Packerpack (fixed)
Hello and welcome,
as you could read in the statemens and in my infos about the release. This is a bugfix. The stock is dead but the bugs still around us... ;)
The Stock
Violator's comment is a welcome to me.
Because i asked myself the same question.
Please before you answer here check some of the fixes,
Dizzy Devil or others did for the stock and now this one.
Because my question is to you all:
HOW TO ADD A BUGFIXED VERSION TO CSDB ?
1. add all infos about..
2. add only bugfix and your group
3. don't add bugfix stuff beware for your own and friends..
4. which releasedate ? (Day of bugfixed, day of original..)?
4. own ideas how to do that ?
OK, feel free to post your comments,
so that i can learn what today counts..
As some guys at CSDB are irritated by myself,
i'm really sorry about but i was irritated by you, too.
The onces who know me better, know that i hate so called wars and any kind of that shit, which is called ELITE or
something like that...
PEACE to anyone in 2007 loving the Commodore 64/128 !
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:
1. add all infos about..
2. add only bugfix and your group
3. don't add bugfix stuff beware for your own and friends..
4. which releasedate ? (Day of bugfixed, day of original..)?
- there should be proper complete credits
- such release should be added under the group/scener that released it and with the releasedate of the bugfix. it should NOT be added as a release of the original group or with the original date. if the original was bugged then thats the way it is, and it should be added in its original form. *replacing* old bugged releases by their bugfixed versions is a big nono, imho.
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Quote: Quote:
1. add all infos about..
2. add only bugfix and your group
3. don't add bugfix stuff beware for your own and friends..
4. which releasedate ? (Day of bugfixed, day of original..)?
- there should be proper complete credits
- such release should be added under the group/scener that released it and with the releasedate of the bugfix. it should NOT be added as a release of the original group or with the original date. if the original was bugged then thats the way it is, and it should be added in its original form. *replacing* old bugged releases by their bugfixed versions is a big nono, imho.
I agree with Groepaz. I always thought it was wrong to add releases from the stock like it has been added here. Just one example:
Summer Code III. This was not a Flash Inc. and The Stock release. There should be a seperate release from the Stock with the bug-fix credit and the date it was bug fixed. It's even impossible since the stock was formed in 1996 and this release is from 1989. There are atleast 6 more releases like this from the stock before the group was even born. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
maybe there should be a way to tag a download link as "bugfix", or some other way to link the original release and the bugfixed one so it can be seen easily that a release has certain problems which have been fixed? PEEEEEERFFFF.....
and yes, those bugfixes shouldnt be added as "groupXYZ and the stock" releases, because they are not (at makes it look like the original release was a coop, which is wrong)
that said, a new releasetype "bugfix" could be added aswell... |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Thank you very much for your comments.
Did some chances now, if you like more contact me for the onces i'm maintainer of.
1. removed other groups as releasegroup
2. set right date
3. removed other credits
4. removed other links so only the link to our release
is there..
Feel free to upload the bugging versions and to set a link to our release.
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
in my conclusion:
we now have to remove most cracking groups from ntsc-pal-'bug' -fixes
for example we have to remove illusion as release-group from Popeye 2 +2FM ...
yeah, i know this is pretty odd, just for you to think about it for a bit :-) |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: in my conclusion:
we now have to remove most cracking groups from ntsc-pal-'bug' -fixes
for example we have to remove illusion as release-group from Popeye 2 +2FM ...
yeah, i know this is pretty odd, just for you to think about it for a bit :-)
The difference is that mostly you can't see the fix in our
versions. The stock never linked intros in front of the
other stuff. ;)
The reason for our comments if we add releases here.
The reason for our dirstamp on some releases..
As some of our members were no sceners (KES, WS,
IMPERATOR, DATALAND, others..)
They were removed with the others until we have a clear
statement about our "commercial group".
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Bloempjes & Bytjes [bugfixed]
Is this better now ?
The groups should do now all own entries and i would like to
hear your voice here if the stock, ptv, go64 worth an entry..
THE STOCK had non related peoples working for us..
THE STOCK sold their fixes as the original productions, with the bugs, were public domain, no one could say something about our work.
THE STOCK wouldn't be the STOCK without the people
like IMPERATOR, WERNER-SOFT, KES, DATALAND behind..
If DATALAND is no scener shouldn't his entry been deleted also.. ? But if so you can't give him the worth credits for
Find another way or Saddam.. ONLY DONE FOR SOME OF US
BUT NOT FOR THE SCENE !
question after question but i hope you understand why
i ask you to think deeper...
For GO64 and PTV you should think about the sceners doing it, you can't match this with a real softwarecompany in my eyes...
FEEL FREE TO POST USEFUL STATEMENTS FOR THE ADMINS AND US !
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:THE STOCK sold their fixes as the original productions, with the bugs, were public domain, no one could say something about our work.
you should get informed about copyright law, especially in germany. to make it short, "public domain" doesnt exist in germany. also, a demo isn't public domain (in countries where public domain exists) at all unless their creators explictly said so (and that was the case for very very few demos). the vast majority would qualify as freeware, not public domain.
that basically makes (probably) most of your releases unauthorized altered versions of copyrighted work (yes, freeware is still copyrighted), which you even sold. great :)
and as for that entry you linked to, its a silicon ltd release. period |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
I agree with you Groepaz. But if we say that the alterations were made under fair-use and the credit was given where credit was due, the fixers still can get credit for the fixing.
The authors get the credit for the software, the fixers for the fixing.
----
And even when german law wouldn't count with "fair-use", I'm sure it's decent way how to handle the current situation of having fixes made without permission from the authors. |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
As you can see this is a bugfix version done by Dizzy Devil.
This is also like you would like to have it..
What's wrong now ?
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: I agree with you Groepaz. But if we say that the alterations were made under fair-use and the credit was given where credit was due, the fixers still can get credit for the fixing.
The authors get the credit for the software, the fixers for the fixing.
----
And even when german law wouldn't count with "fair-use", I'm sure it's decent way how to handle the current situation of having fixes made without permission from the authors.
yes ofcourse, noone wants to "steal" credit from them. i was only answering to that weird "you cant upload it here because we sold it" statement :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: I agree with you Groepaz. But if we say that the alterations were made under fair-use and the credit was given where credit was due, the fixers still can get credit for the fixing.
The authors get the credit for the software, the fixers for the fixing.
----
And even when german law wouldn't count with "fair-use", I'm sure it's decent way how to handle the current situation of having fixes made without permission from the authors.
yes ofcourse, noone wants to "steal" credit from them. i was only answering to that weird "you cant upload it here because we sold it" statement :) |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: yes ofcourse, noone wants to "steal" credit from them. i was only answering to that weird "you cant upload it here because we sold it" statement :)
ok, but as the stock was never a scene group you understand now what i mean... ?! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: As you can see this is a bugfix version done by Dizzy Devil.
This is also like you would like to have it..
What's wrong now ?
(sorry for doubleposting, i accidently hit reload...)
the entry should just look like any other silicon ltd entry, with release group set to silicon ltd and proper credits (and yes ofcourse, that includes dizzy devil for bugfixing - no more no less) |
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Trazan
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
..and if it wasnt a scenegroup - delete the entry.
This IS the SCENE database! |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: ..and if it wasnt a scenegroup - delete the entry.
This IS the SCENE database!
OK if you as an admin said that... |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: ok, but as the stock was never a scene group you understand now what i mean... ?!
But fixing a scene release by non-scene group doesn't make it non-scene release. Only authors can change that status (by e.g. selling it to the software house for commercial purposes), and still scene still can claim the release being a scene release. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: ok, but as the stock was never a scene group you understand now what i mean... ?!
no, i don't.
by your logic, "the stock" should be simply completely removed alltogether (because, hey, its not a scene group).
mind you, thats not what i think. unless what you mean is that the only purpose of "the stock" was to make money with selling altered scene productions, then it definetly deserves to be removed.
the releases on the other hand would be still a different thing, they are scene productions and belong here (properly credited ofcourse) |
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Trazan
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Quote: OK if you as an admin said that...
Admin - Moderator?
Do you actually think you will get a approval from Perff as sole Admin for this entry?
Instead of arguing about just bascially everything, wouldnt it be easier to actually remove this - as it doesnt belong on Csdb?!
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: no, i don't.
by your logic, "the stock" should be simply completely removed alltogether (because, hey, its not a scene group).
mind you, thats not what i think. unless what you mean is that the only purpose of "the stock" was to make money with selling altered scene productions, then it definetly deserves to be removed.
the releases on the other hand would be still a different thing, they are scene productions and belong here (properly credited ofcourse)
As the leader or organizer i can say
"We sold that to help diskmags, other users.."
If i'm right you care about the releases but not for the groups, the people, storys behind like f.e. Yoko.TV right ?
As i understand CSDB they care.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: As the leader or organizer i can say
"We sold that to help diskmags, other users.."
If i'm right you care about the releases but not for the groups, the people, storys behind like f.e. Yoko.TV right ?
As i understand CSDB they care..
a) your intentions of selling scene productions is irrelevant. selling scene productions is lame in any case.
b) i do care about the story and people behind scene productions. i even care somewhat about the story and people behind commercial productions. however the latter doesnt belong here, simply as that.
looks like you can't stop repeating that you don't belong to the scene - so why are you here? |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: a) your intentions of selling scene productions is irrelevant. selling scene productions is lame in any case.
b) i do care about the story and people behind scene productions. i even care somewhat about the story and people behind commercial productions. however the latter doesnt belong here, simply as that.
looks like you can't stop repeating that you don't belong to the scene - so why are you here?
Some productions wouldn't be here without me.
For me it's very easy to delete or let them be deleted..
But then i would never give here any rights to add stuff
linked with me, my groups, my members together again..
I'm here to add infos, stuff, productions, storys behind
but it seems some of you don't like to seen that..
The admins stopped me deleting stuff linked with me or my groups..
I care about CSDB and the idea behind !
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:But then i would never give here any rights to add stuff linked with me, my groups, my members together again..
if only you had any rights at non authorized altered scene productions o_O
and as for your right at adding info... everyone has all rights in the world to add it, as long as it is correct and doesnt contain personal stuff (real names, adresses, photos, phone numbers etc) |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: Quote:But then i would never give here any rights to add stuff linked with me, my groups, my members together again..
if only you had any rights at non authorized altered scene productions o_O
and as for your right at adding info... everyone has all rights in the world to add it, as long as it is correct and doesnt contain personal stuff (real names, adresses, photos, phone numbers etc)
read the rules at csdb... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
get laid. please. asap. |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: get laid. please. asap.
ok after hearing only some voices, i would like to here more... PLEASE not only the same ones... ;) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Baracuda
1. You don't have right to decide whether scene productions that got fixed by your group should have/or not download links here.
1.1 The credit for fixing will eventually go to the person who fixed it and not the group. The person who fixed the release can claim that release shouldn't be added here. But it's not applicable because the release went under freeware licencne and he can't change that licennce all of sudden and make it unaviable even when the part of the sowtware are his. However, authors of the original release can decide whether the altered release should stay or should be removed (especially when it causes some intellectual property damage to the original athors)
Simply: In this case I would rather keep the altered release download here. Only original author can claim removal of the files.
2. You have right to decide if your group should or shouldn't stay here, but you can't force your groupmates or other sceners to eventually add it / themselves again. |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
# The information regarding entries belongs to those who the information is about. A person "owns" the information about his scener-profile, and the information of his/hers releases and the groups he/she is/was member of.
THE STOCK WAS MY GROUP !
If any person who "owns" information doesn't want the information in CSDb it is totally their rights to remove it, and should be respected. This means that if you have any doubts that the person who owns the information does not want it in CSDb, you must not add it, and also that this person have the right to delete the information at any time.
OK, anytime..
You must only lock entries which you "own". That is your own scener profile, groups you are/were member of, releases you have created and events you have organized.
OK, my releases mostly locked...
If you "own" any information and doesn't want it in CSDb, it is of course your right not to add it, but in such cases you should state this clearly in the entry (using the trivia field, comments or similar), so that it is not mistaken for poor maintenance.
OK |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Baracuda: Will you read what I said again or should I repeat it in bold?
P.S: "YOUR" group entry was added by your friend and my groupmate Jak T Rip if I saw right. |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
After a short discussion and while there is none who said clear that the stock should stay we remove this group.
The releases will stay and maintained to Dizzy Devil,
as he asked me for that. :)
Await the links back.. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Pheewww.. finally. That's all I ask for.
The rest we can solve later. If I were you I wouldn't remove The Stock I consider it a scene group (sort of swapper's central..) and I don't think it should be removed.
Ok can I close this thread now before some idiot will spit on you again and make you upset? |
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BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
Quote: Pheewww.. finally. That's all I ask for.
The rest we can solve later. If I were you I wouldn't remove The Stock I consider it a scene group (sort of swapper's central..) and I don't think it should be removed.
Ok can I close this thread now before some idiot will spit on you again and make you upset?
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