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2010-11-02 18:58

enthusi

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675

popular gfx modes today...

My thoughts on the different gfx modes on the c64.
I like the idea of calling something a gfx-mode as soon as it has an editor (native or not) on its own.
This rules out the very interesting MUCSU format by algorithm (for the moment) and it reflects my lack of a better idea.

HIRES:
In fact I like HiRes the most. Its limitations are clean, simple and obvious. I think it is very suited for experiments (Ptoing is the first I think of here,
but there are others as well of course.)
The selection of colors and even more so of shapes needs careful balancing and a lot can be achieved.
This mode is not used to its full potential yet. The speccy scene is quite active in a very similar regime...

MCOL/KOALA:
I think this first became unpopular when FLI and interlace came up - yet I think everything any image needs can be achieved in this mode.
It might lack the capability of great details (which I usually find disturbing in pics anyway) but it can transfer moods wonderful and already allows for mind bending color transitions and anti aliasing in the proper hands.

Interlace modes:
I don't like interlace at all. Its nice for SOME rare color-transitions, but I dislike its usage to create 'detail'.

FLI:
Only few artists seem to have really used it. Actually the restrictions of MCOL are already very tricky when you fully consider smart use of BG color (to me that is ;-). I don't like FLI as a standard format too much.
I'd prefer a manual change of colors when needed or manual overlay sprites actually. But then again, I don't know much about pixeling for FLI. When I think of cool FLI, only LOGOs and scrollers come into mind.

AFLI:
Here, cool things can be done :) I like that somehow. So its some sort of cheap miracle format (NUFLI being the expensive alternative) to me.

NUFLI:
I think NUFLI is a very powerful thing. I played with its converter a lot and also used the editor for some time now.
Quite frankly the editor is much more handy than I would have expected. After a short introduction to it by veto I kind of liked it for smaller corrections.
NUFLI is perfectly suited for nice standalone pictures (hardly any FX possible anyway).
It sure rocks for games, experiments but its not a pixel-format for me. I couldn't stand the thought of 'blurry' pixels - meaning, pixels in my PC-based picture that get changed in the converter etc... It's in no way intuitive and it FEELs like broken mode 13 on PC to me. Yet, it's
results are amazing.

MUIFLI:
Please just don't ;) As Deekay put it: interlace might be beaten by NUFLI, so lets keep it that way.

I've seen amazing things in all formats and it really seems to depend on the artist behind it.
Some names I connect to modes for some reasons.

Archmage and Mermaid are linked to MCOL for me :-)
I think Mermaid has her very own choice of colors and motives too. Always a pleasant surprise.
I consider Archmage extremely skillful in setting individual pixels, mostly in MCOL maybe. A rare case of images that can be identified by pixel style and set up of the motive itself. Veto seems to be drawing paintings recently. Totally ignoring formats. It's a 'veto', no matter if its HiRes, MCOL or NUFLI. Stunning. And ptoing on the other
hand seems to embrace restrictions and abused them rather than trying to avoid em.
I'm just listing the top/most active artists that pop into my head right now. I think there are pros for every format.
Some master several (i.e. Mermaid sure is among the leading HiRes graphicians as well) but I'm not sure if there is/will be or can be a master of NUFLI for example. Right now that would be Deekay with all his heart in it :) Yet, NUFLI
(to me) is aiming for photo realism or no-restrictions (PC-EGA) -> it comes down to artist/composer skills rather than working with the limitations.
Veto, having spent a small life on his recent X2010 entry with the NUFLI format might oppose me on that :) but this is how it _feels_ to me. I know no one asked my opinion on all that, but I am very much interested in other people's views and just wanted to make a start.

PS: I hope people will comment on their own feelings and opinions rather than others'.

2010-11-03 08:45

Archmage

Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185

Nice read, Enthusi. Since my name is mentioned here a couple of times I thought I might put in my views on the different modes I've tried... and try to hold down my prejudice about the ones I haven't. ;)

Hires is relatively new to me and I've only done a couple of pictures. I feel that the full potential of this format is yet to be seen on the C64 even though there are some really good pictures out there. Mermaid and Twoflower are names that spring to mind when it comes to this mode. Still, like Enthusi, I look to the Speccy scene to see the really mindblowing stuff done in a similar mode. The trick, it seems, is to think diagonally.

Multicolour is what makes the C64 rock in my opinion. The fact that this native mode can be used _with_ effects instead of _being_ an effect is of the essence to me. Besides, its chunky and dirty and cool in a ballsy kind of way and if it is wired it is fairly easy to tell. If you can pull it off in multicolour you have pixel skills. If you can't, you don't. Period.

Interlace should be avoided at all cost. The detail gets all muddled and the flicker just burns your eyes. Torture.

FLI is what I started out with. I worked my way through the formats in P1 and thought "hey!", this mode gives me one more colour per char. After a while I got more conscious about the FLI bug and the fact that the mode wasn't really as usable in demo effects as MC. Besides, I discovered that I didn't really need that extra colour per char to do good stuff.

NUFLI is the new buzz, and even though it is very technically impressive I really can't be bothered. There are a couple of reasons for this. One reason that is already mentioned is that it is more an effect in itself than anything else. More importantly, there are just too many pixels on screen for me to be in control of them all without having to quit my dayjob. And most importantly, anything that can be done in NUFLI can be done just as well in MC. The best graphicians on the C64 are the ones who can come up with a striking theme, good use of colour and lighting, put the pixels where they are supposed to be and to be able to turn limitations into advantages. Having no restrictions will make you sloppy, and it shows.

2010-11-03 17:52

Carrion

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317

I have to agree with Arch, that everything that can be done with NUFLI can be pixeled more or less with multicolor (more or less). IMO it's the idea, lightening (and shadowing) and the atmosphere that counts for me. My favorite mode of choise will be multicolor for upcoming pics (when i get back to pixeling;) and not because some people (hi Archmage) told me that my latest pic from X was my best one ever...
As Arch and Enthusi said there's a lot of potential in multicolor. For example choosing a background color wise could help a lot to avoid color clashes.
I also like the "fat pixels" of multicolor because they give this unique feeling of C64 graphics plus some skills are needed to play with them (c4 challange at pixeljoint.com from past week showed this imo)

I want to ask you all graphicians about your feeling about NUFLI for compo graphics. because my opinion is that if you do NUFLI for compo pic you get some extra points at start because of the mode used. And again it's not the mode but idea/concept/artistic approach/technique that makes my hero!
We know NUFLI is hard to master (right DK?) but it doesnt have to mean that the pic is great from the beggining.
It should be the other way around. Hardcore modes like hires/multicolor should have more points because they are nativ and they need (especially hires) some extra skill - right Duce?

I have no time for pixeling now but I'll do more mcolor pics in future.
All I do know is watch CSDB/c64pixels.com and I have to say that even 3 color pics like the ones we have to fight about are some kind of nice and they show c64 potential and spirit. I think 3colors is OK but multicolor is more OK and we should experiment and do more mcolor pics from now on.

Ah yeah I'll be banished again by my friend DK by not praising the NUFLI enough.
He even put a Duce pic in NUFLI editor rather than mine ;)

2010-11-05 21:10

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

I have never worked with anything else but hires and multicolour. Maybe sometime soon i will try FLI or even NUFLI, but the multicolour process to me is fantastic. It has a great feel and you have to really work on a pic to make it presentable.

But when it works it is awesome. Check out some of Joe´s amazing stuff in mc, or carrion´spic for the last X. Or a lot of the amazing stuff that mermaid has done. I am glad ifli is dead and nufli is here. But i hope more and more go back to good old fashioned multicolour.

2010-11-06 11:58

v3to

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150

multicolor is the evergreen of c64 graphic modes and in fact for obvious reasons. the restrictions are clearly defined, easy to get into and provide enough flexibility for nearly every gfx style you can think of. if there is one common c64-mode it is multicolor proved by many, many arist. to name a few: mermaid, archmage, oys, carrion, joe, bizzmo, clone, sander, leon, blackdroid, ste, sit, pal, valsary, ...
in contrast to this fli seems to loose popularity. imo fli was always comparable to mc because it depends more on detail if a picture really benefits from that mode. well, unless you are lars or hein, who only can do awesome here...

hires. what i like of this mode is its simplicity. it is interesting that this mode was not really popular for years, though masters wayne schmidt, mermaid and twoflower - and not to forget the zx spectrum scene - showed how great pictures look with clever color usage. it is a pleasure to see more high-class stuff. duce, ptoing and leon come to my mind. same with afli, though i also think that - like fli with mc - is not such a huge improvement and more a rainbow mode. but in fact there are some impressing works existing (thinking of lars and mermaid).

what i dislike about the interlace discussion is this completely ignoring the relevance for the c64 scene especially in the 90ies and the graphician's archievements. yes, flickering is a pain and was also the reason why i never passed a few pixels (got serious headache using funpainter 2), besides i do not share the opinion about blurred details. look at katon, amn or duce pics. and there are some real masterpieces techniquewise. i recommend to take a look at single frames from jailbird's gfx or leon's unjustified bashed ifli-copies. even at this stage they look quite impressive. but this is zeitgeist.

ok nufli. cut down afli with spriteunderlay and fli-bug workaround. powerful mode and confusing restrictions. i tried this mode because imo it is the first compelling concept of its type (same with mucsu, unfortunately missing an editor). actually i used not to like these superhires-derivates before because of screen limitations and it is easier to get better results with individual sprite usage and a trusted coder ;)
i agree with enthusi that it is no mode to be ruled. there is always the risk things become easily complictated. be aware to spend months to get used to the restrictions if you do not want to be the converter king. and pleaaase - work with the crest nufli editor (btw the best c64 gfx tool i have seen for ages - no, i am no crest member).
nufli is awesome for graphical style, clean shaped detail, dithering and experiments. it is also a good choice for sceners from other systems to try c64 colors. all good reasons for its success :)

multicolor charset is my favorite gfx mode. it can do mixed resolutions, clear restrictions and it's codewise very flexible. game bg, fullscreen animation or pictures. all possible.
efficiency is the way to go and this is what i like. unfortunately there are only few gems recently. the gfx in hein's recollection 3 intro and joe's hawkeye 2 bg are both excellent, almighty god's crespeculo girl was a nice one too.

2010-11-07 02:36

Deev

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206

Personally, I'm more interested in the end result than the mode that's used. Obviously if you're pixelling for a demo, then the mode is often important, but when working on a stand alone picture, I tend to think why use multicolour when you can use FLI? Same goes with hires mode. There's been some interesting experiments in hires and it's nice to see these every now again, but sometimes there have been pictures where people's votes and comments seem more based on how far the mode has been stretched, instead of how nice the end result is. It's rare that a person's best work is in hires mode, however well the mode has been used, and in many cases, a multicolour picture could be made to look even cooler with a few extra colours in the most intricate sections. I know people want to experiment and I'm all for that, but I just think a bit too much emphasis goes on mode usage at times.

NUFLI is an exciting one to me. On one hand, it's a replacement for colourful IFLI pictures seen throughout slidestory and I think it does an excellent job there. Personally though, it's a way to advance on the style I started using in my picture "Lost" several years ago. I released that in IFLI, but it was far from ideal. A lot of the ideas I've had in recent years work far better in hires modes, but I've always come up against the barriers of lack of colours (Hires/ALI) or a painful creation process (UFLI, MUFLI etc). To be able to work in a mode that lets me use hires gfx without lots of colour restriction and in a process that doesn't make me want to drown baby animals is great!

As for interlace modes, they seem to get a lot of stick these days, but I've always quite liked them. I enjoy the flicker, or shimmering as I prefer to call it! Admitedly, it's become a lot less enjoyable now most of my C64 activity is done through an emulator on a razor sharp LCD screen, but on a real machine plugged into a 14" CRT, they still look good to me. Having said that, you have to move with the times and I doubt I'll use one again any time soon.

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