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Forums > C64 Composing > C64-DTV & SID
2005-08-22 11:41
Bamu®
Account closed

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332
C64-DTV & SID

I'm really interested how close is C64-DTV SID-emulation in comparison with the real chip...
Which chip works in it: 6581, 8580, both?
Ok, since there are a lot old games in it, it's possible that emulation is more like a 6581; but what's about the filters?

Btw. The idea behind the c64-dtv seems to quite nice, but I would prefer a kind of portable SID-player.
2005-08-22 13:27
dalezy

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 477
a portable sidplayer would totally rock. not sure how much of an easy thing this would be, but it'd be nice to be able to hack the firmware of an mp3 player and sneak a sidplay-plugin or smth similar in.
2005-08-22 15:00
Soren
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547
What I've heard is that the c64 DTV doesn't have filter, which is quite a shame. It does have other great things though.
2005-08-22 15:11
algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 707
Use C64 Emulator or SID Player on Pocket PC.
2005-08-22 16:14
TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879
Quote: a portable sidplayer would totally rock. not sure how much of an easy thing this would be, but it'd be nice to be able to hack the firmware of an mp3 player and sneak a sidplay-plugin or smth similar in.

Hmm, I guess the Archos mp3 players (of which I also am an owner) would have a really good chance of getting this, or maybe already having it. Why? Well, because there's an open source project for it (rockbox) which is ran by some guys who used to be in this small c64 group called Horizon .. so all ingredients are there, me thinks :)

Check out http://www.rockbox.org/
2005-08-22 16:41
Bamu®
Account closed

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332
Quote: Use C64 Emulator or SID Player on Pocket PC.

Buy a Pocket-Pc only for SID-Music?

No filters, hmmmmmmm - really bad ;.........(
2005-09-02 01:57
Eryk

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Quote: a portable sidplayer would totally rock. not sure how much of an easy thing this would be, but it'd be nice to be able to hack the firmware of an mp3 player and sneak a sidplay-plugin or smth similar in.

My best suggestion for now would be to use SIDPlay to dump out a wave file and convert that to an MP3.

Not an elegant solution, but functional.
2005-09-02 14:05
Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
I use a 6581 on a HardSID and record that straight into MP3 :) or OGG Vorbis :)
2005-09-02 14:17
Sasq

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
My best suggestion for now would be to use SIDPlay to dump out a wave file and convert that to an MP3.


Then you may as well sample a real C64 to get the real sound. Only drawback is mono, performing slight stereo separation really makes it easier to listen to in headphones.

I also wrote a GUI and hvsids-wad format for a GP32 libsidplay port so you could browse and play hvsids on that machine, sounded pretty good.

2005-09-02 15:23
Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Quote: Quote:
My best suggestion for now would be to use SIDPlay to dump out a wave file and convert that to an MP3.


Then you may as well sample a real C64 to get the real sound. Only drawback is mono, performing slight stereo separation really makes it easier to listen to in headphones.

I also wrote a GUI and hvsids-wad format for a GP32 libsidplay port so you could browse and play hvsids on that machine, sounded pretty good.



Well, yes you can use a real c64 if connecting it to the stereo and then the stereo to the pc. but back then I haven't had both computers in the same room. Well, now I have :)
2005-09-03 21:28
Richard

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621
Quote: What I've heard is that the c64 DTV doesn't have filter, which is quite a shame. It does have other great things though.

My C64 doesn't have a filter either. Maybe because it is a C64C. It would be nice to have the C64 filters on the DTV. Maybe there should be a switch/option to select SID mode. (Old & New SID) ;)
2005-09-03 23:10
Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Quote: My C64 doesn't have a filter either. Maybe because it is a C64C. It would be nice to have the C64 filters on the DTV. Maybe there should be a switch/option to select SID mode. (Old & New SID) ;)

Eh. Even the newer SID has filters!!!

And I have many C64Cs!
2005-09-04 05:19
Eryk

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Quote: My C64 doesn't have a filter either. Maybe because it is a C64C. It would be nice to have the C64 filters on the DTV. Maybe there should be a switch/option to select SID mode. (Old & New SID) ;)

The C64C does have filters, but they aren't as, uh, prominent as the older C64s (prior to June 1987 - it seems to me that was when the new 8580 based C64Cs reached Australian stores).

Martin Galway complained that the new filters were "way too open" so you could be forgiven for thinking they weren't there at all.
2005-09-04 08:59
T.M.R
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749
The DTV doesn't have filters because the poor ASIC that's being hammered as it's "heart" hasn't enough push to do cycle accurate VIC-II, full I/O, SID sounds *and* the filters. The SID that the core is modelled on is a 6581 and, barring that and the ring modulation dropping sounds from Cybernoid 2, it does an admirable job in the circumstances.
2005-09-04 11:54
Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Quote: The C64C does have filters, but they aren't as, uh, prominent as the older C64s (prior to June 1987 - it seems to me that was when the new 8580 based C64Cs reached Australian stores).

Martin Galway complained that the new filters were "way too open" so you could be forgiven for thinking they weren't there at all.


Yes, from what I know, 1987 is correct. :)
2005-09-07 04:46
Eryk

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Quote: I'm really interested how close is C64-DTV SID-emulation in comparison with the real chip...
Which chip works in it: 6581, 8580, both?
Ok, since there are a lot old games in it, it's possible that emulation is more like a 6581; but what's about the filters?

Btw. The idea behind the c64-dtv seems to quite nice, but I would prefer a kind of portable SID-player.


Looking at the SwinSID page, your wish might be in development:

http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/playsid.htm

Interesting concept.
2005-09-08 07:40
Grue

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 165
Quote: Looking at the SwinSID page, your wish might be in development:

http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/playsid.htm

Interesting concept.


Interesting, yes. sounds good, no. I mean its horrible!!!
2005-09-09 12:58
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1083
It reminds me of PC64 that emulated the SID with the Adlib FM synth. It'd probably sound better if tunes were composed directly for it.
2005-09-09 15:55
Eryk

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Quote: Interesting, yes. sounds good, no. I mean its horrible!!!

The samples there are for the SwinSID, not for the portable SID player prototype.
2005-09-09 15:59
Eryk

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Quote: It reminds me of PC64 that emulated the SID with the Adlib FM synth. It'd probably sound better if tunes were composed directly for it.


For the SwinSID itself, it might be better to think of it as a SID alternative rather than a replacement.

I've come across a few SID players for PC that used the Adlib - the emulation is far from ideal, but sometimes works well. I've found several tunes that sound different, but in a good way - rather like hearing a familiar melody played on a new instrument.

I'd also like to hear what the SwinSID would sound like with tunes arranged specifically for it.
2005-09-20 14:28
Swinkels
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 1
I've updated my SwinSID module to support pulse width efect. Now it sounds close to real SID. There are new sample music on my site.
I'am working on enhanced version of this card with more channels and effects. I will post more info here soon.
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