Host:
Here we have some freaks,

Edwin, you're here with a home computer still, eh?

EVS:

That's right, at least, the one I have with me, that's a Commodore 64. In

principle a fairly easy to use user-friendly computer, however, in general it

is more a gaming computer and such, and not for business application.

Host
Is that the big difference between a PC and a home computer?

EVS:

Yes, I think so, at least the 64 compared with for example an IBM or something

similar.

Host:
And financially? What's the difference?

(EVS grins)

EVS:
That difference is rather big indeed, for instance you can buy a second hand

64 for about 200 guilders!

Journalist:
That's not much at all.

EVS:
That's because a huge number has been sold, and these things are easy to come

by, there's a lot being offered for sale.

Host:
So they're basically worthless.

EVS:
In principal, yes, at least with regards to financial value, but there is

still a very large scene, the whole stuff surrounding it, the groups and all

those kinds of things.

Host:
Why do you keep working with a home computer? No money?

EVS:
Well, I keep working with the Commodore 64 mainly because I use the sound chip

a lot..that's what I mostly do with this computer at the moment, and I like

that. Of course there are computers that have much better sound, like the

Amiga; that has digis and such, you can literally record sounds. That's why I

like the 64, that's still more of a computer sound.

Host:
Edwin, you make music for games, isn't that right?

EVS:
Yes, for games and also for programs by other people, usually people I know,

that make these programs and then they often ask me to make some music for

their programs, just as background.

Host:
Already at this age? You're 16 years old, right?

EVS:
Yeah, but I'm doing this now for...we are a sort of music group, together with

another guy: he programs the music program and I make the music. We're a group

now for two years, since last July 17th.

Host:
How old were you when you started this?

EVS:
With music I was 13, or 14, but I got my first computer when I was 11 or

something.

(Then comes some caller to the radio program that thinks the freaks

interviewed during the radio program - EVS among them - spend too much time

with their computers, it has become too much a part of their life, he himself

only spends 1 hour per school day.)

Host:
What do you think of that? You spend much more time with your computers,

right?

EVS:
Well, it really depends, one day more than the other. Lately, I spend much

less than an hour per day.

Host:
But? You have had periods of how many hours per day?

EVS:
Well, for example, that I was behind my computer from the early morning to the

late evening during the holidays.

Host:
Enough to make anyone go crazy.

EVS:
Well, it's more like, someone asks me to make some music and they wish to

release the program at a certain date. But I never feel like starting...until

the last day, and then I'm forced to work all day to finish it!

Host:
Would you like to play some of your computer music?

EVS:
Sure, I can do that.

(EVS starts up a tune)

Host (not really amused with the sound):
Hmyeah, for which program did you create this tune?

EVS:
That's a song that I create a long ti...

Host:
You may turn it off now!

(EVS turns it off)

EVS:
It's a song I wrote a long time ago, not really for any program, it's fairly

old, one of my first tunes, and recently I simply redid it in a new music

routine.

Host:
How many games do you have?

EVS:
Not much at all at the moment, because I personally hate most games.

Host:
Yeah right. How many programs do you have?

EVS:
Well, I have here one box full, I have in total 1.5 times this, not really

that much. I'd say I have about 6000 to 8000 programs.

Host:
And how many of those did you buy??

EVS:
I would estimate approximately 0?

Host:
Approximately 0...that's not much at all. So how do you get them?

EVS:
I used to "exchange" a lot, I also was in cracking groups and new programs

would be send by mail and nowadays I sometimes do this using a modem, but it's

not my main trade anymore.

Host:
THose cracking groups...the original programs are protected, right? How do you

guys do this?

EVS:
That's the nice thing about cracking groups. All those groups want to be as

fast as possible (they want of course to be the first to release a new game)

to buy a new game (or get it from somewhere) and then remove the protection

piece by piece, shorten the program as much as possible and save it on disk so

it can be copied.

Host:
I notice you have wandered a lot between cracking groups, 1001, Bros, Mad

Squad, were you kicked out by all of them?

EVS:
No, it's a common thing, almost everyone will change groups a lot, you meet

new people and when you're really at it, you will become better at it, become

more known and then people want you. Some groups quit, because members want to

start their own groups. It differs.

Host:
You say, "you become better at it". I can imagine that you can do terrible

things with these computers if you're good at it.

EVS:
That really depends. Of course you can misuse your knowledge, but you can also

just use it in a positive way, it really depends on your mentality.

Host:
Define misuse?

EVS:
Breaking into some system to damage it. Or to destroy something that will be

gone for the original users.

Host:
And you could also misuse information that you wrongfully acquire by breaking

into systems, is it not?

EVS:
That also depends. To clarify, I don't do this often myself, I've only spend

maybe just a weekend on it. It's a lot of work.

Host:
What did you do?

EVS:
Calling computers to try an gain access to the system, that you get an account

and enter your username and password...But it takes a lot before you get there

at some company system.

Host:
Hmm. Say, you also visit copy-parties? Is that also a sort of

"exchange-market"?

EVS:
That depends, a lot of people go there for different reasons. I obviously

don't got there for the programs that are released there, but to spread my own

programs there. For example, to release a new music program together with the

guy I'm doing this with, then we go to such a party often.

Host:
And where are those parties?

EVS:
Well, in Venlo there are often parties, but that's not really a copy-party,

that's just a meeting of Stichting Huiscomputers Nederland, and there we visit

fairly frequently.

Host:
And do you cross the border sometimes?

EVS:
Yes, this one we went to a really big party in Denmark, in december last year.

I took a ride from a German guy that we also know from the scene, and we

stayed there for four days.

Host:
I take it you don't travel to Denmark for each copy?

EVS:
No, not really. I went there for a number of reasons. Firstly, I was going to

be a really big party, with lots of arcades, new videogames, new videowalls,

videotapes. Everyone met one another there, all the known people from the

computerscene were there so it was really attractive to go there!