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Forums > CSDb Bug Reports > Yugoslavia
2003-05-29 22:40
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Yugoslavia

There's no such thing any more (legally, politically, physically, nor any other way).
Rather use Serbia & Montenegro as an option in that drop-down menu.
2003-05-30 10:24
Graham
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990
but what about productions which were made when yugoslavia still existed?
2003-05-30 13:11
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Hm. Are the productions sorted to countries? If so, interesting, as the scene in former Yugoslavia (the very first mutation, that consisted of six different states and nations) was mainly based in Serbia (and a tiny bit of, this expression is simply fantasic, "retard-scene" in Montenegro). There were a few c64 sceners in Macedonia (B'Stard, Trugoy...), one coder from Bosnia (Erol), one swapper (as far as I know) from Slovenia (Tristar), and perhaps one from Croatia (although personally I never saw any releases from the guy).
Productions which were made in ex-yu, afaik, are on CSDb sorted to Bosnia, Croatia etc..., only the Serbian releases, and the ones from Montenegro still have the quite silly "Yugoslavian" mark on it (which became another nostalgic, fucked up red utopian idea and a heavy insult for some here).
Look on it this way: releases from the former Czech-Slovakian union are sorted to Czech and Slovakian releases, releases from the former USSR are sorted to Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, etc...
Well, I was mainly pointing this out not because of the releases, but more as for my correct infos (I'm not living in Yugoslavia, but in the Serbian state of the country called Serbia & Montenegro - hopefully not for too long, but that's another story...)
2003-05-31 00:24
fade
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290
I know how to fix your woes.. move back to Hungary :)
2003-08-09 03:26
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Anything new considering this "Yugoslavia" topic?
Simply remove it and add Serbia and Montenegro instead, I guess it shouldn't be so hard... Yugoslavia does not exist any more.
2003-08-09 16:28
Perff
Administrator

Posts: 1686
I addet Serbia and Montenegro to the country-list now, but I won't remove Yugoslavia for history reasons.
2007-01-27 16:17
Tom-Cat

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20
I have a homepage about the ex-Yugoslavian C64 (and ZX, Amiga, etc.) releases - games, demos, intros, etc. - anything basically here :

http://retrospec.sgn.net/users/tomcat/yu/

Note that I always use "ex-" prefix ;-)

TC
2007-01-27 21:53
Rough
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
I see no reason to exclude Yugoslavia as possible entry as long as it existed officially. The only reason for Jailbird's stupid bashing is him (and not "some" as he states) feeling insulted by that nation which was built in a belief that an ethnical background is something which emancipated invididuals have left behind in history, unluckily the reactionary sides be it fascist-close in Croatia or Muslims in Bosnia have become powerful in the early/middle 90s.

By the way for those interested: the election victory of the so-called ultra-nationalists in Serbia and the UN not approving the Kosova independency ideas raises chances for another war.
2007-01-27 22:18
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quoting Rough
I see no reason to exclude Yugoslavia as possible entry as long as it existed officially. The only reason for Jailbird's stupid bashing is him (and not "some" as he states) feeling insulted by that nation which was built in a belief that an ethnical background is something which emancipated invididuals have left behind in history, unluckily the reactionary sides be it fascist-close in Croatia or Muslims in Bosnia have become powerful in the early/middle 90s.

By the way for those interested: the election victory of the so-called ultra-nationalists in Serbia and the UN not approving the Kosova independency ideas raises chances for another war.
Rough, oh my fucking god, you totally miss the point! Let alone that you know shit about Serbia or ex-Yugoslavia.

Do you know I'm actually a Hungarian with Serb, Polish and German roots? So actually I prefer to be entitled as a Man, European, Earthling... take your choice. I don't mind if I'm called Yugoslavian, only that I am not a Yugoslavian and I am not living in Yugoslavia, get it?

As for the ultra-nationalists winning the elections, man, you couldn't be more wrong. More than 60% of the voters choose democratic and liberal gouverment. So please get your facts right before posting stupidities.
2007-01-27 22:25
Rough
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
I don't care if you are Yugoslavian, Chinese or Bolivian. The only thing which often is obvious in your posts that you are a poor idiot.

Fact is the ultra nationalists are the party with the highest percentage of votes, if they will receive the main part of the future government isnt settled yet afaik.

Actually if you are trying to put an argument with "totally miss the point" declare which point I missed. I see no reason why you are whining constantly in posts about the former Yugoslavia, even want the CSDB maintainers to exclude it from choice for releases. Fact is that state existed and fact is C64 software was used and written in its territory.
2007-01-27 22:34
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
I don't see releases divided to East- and West-Germany neither. So according to your logic, since both countries existed somewhere in history, we could include them to the lists as well. And the same would apply for the Soviet Union or Czech-Slovakia.

Re-read my post, please. The ultra-nationalists will have 28% in the gouverment. Whatever their ideas are, ~70% of the democrats/liberals will oppose it. The majority decides and democrats set the ministration. That's how the Serbian gouverment works.

If I offended you or your views in any way, I'm sorry, but I still don't get it why do you insult me. I think I'm not the one to blame for your lack of knowledge considering the history of Yugoslavia or the current situation in Serbia.

Edit: I only asked to include Serbia and Montenegro (see, I didn't even wanted them separately those days since the country existed by that name) to the list for being more accurate considering the details about sceners from this region. Macedonia, Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia were already on the list. I had no political reasons or whatsoever. So chill, really, no need for such a harsh fight about the name of my country. If we'll meet once, I'll buy you a beer and we'll laugh about it. :)

Plus, now as I checked it, Yugoslavia is still on the dropdown list so there was absolutely no sensible reason for your attack. You just made me sad, need to hug Elmo now, that's what poor idiots do when they cry :'(
2007-01-27 23:41
Rough
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Quote: I don't see releases divided to East- and West-Germany neither. So according to your logic, since both countries existed somewhere in history, we could include them to the lists as well. And the same would apply for the Soviet Union or Czech-Slovakia.

Re-read my post, please. The ultra-nationalists will have 28% in the gouverment. Whatever their ideas are, ~70% of the democrats/liberals will oppose it. The majority decides and democrats set the ministration. That's how the Serbian gouverment works.

If I offended you or your views in any way, I'm sorry, but I still don't get it why do you insult me. I think I'm not the one to blame for your lack of knowledge considering the history of Yugoslavia or the current situation in Serbia.

Edit: I only asked to include Serbia and Montenegro (see, I didn't even wanted them separately those days since the country existed by that name) to the list for being more accurate considering the details about sceners from this region. Macedonia, Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia were already on the list. I had no political reasons or whatsoever. So chill, really, no need for such a harsh fight about the name of my country. If we'll meet once, I'll buy you a beer and we'll laugh about it. :)

Plus, now as I checked it, Yugoslavia is still on the dropdown list so there was absolutely no sensible reason for your attack. You just made me sad, need to hug Elmo now, that's what poor idiots do when they cry :'(


Actually it should be considered to put the USSR, Czechoslavia and the GDR as entry possibilites, for the later I dont know if there 64 releases from before October 1989, but as the GDR existed one more year and there are Dytec releases from pre-October 1990 it should be added.

Furthermore there's no evidence that I have lack of knowledge about Serbia in the topic I was referring to, (to repeat) the Radical party has won the election, I didnt not say they're gonna be the major part of the future government. Coaliation talks are in progress and we will see. Actually I don't know about the inner country political topics currently going on in Serbia but I strongly support Kosova remaining part of Serbia, I dont want a Facist-Muslim state (not only close to me, but nowhere, not in Kosova, not in Indonesia, not in Iran)

As I doubt we'll ever meet one day I hand you a virtual beer over (which isnt too much though...) 8)
2007-01-27 23:50
Rough
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
GDR/FRG dividing. (addressing to everyone)

One could argue before October 3rd 1990 99% of German releases should be put into an extra category for West-Germany.

But the so-called re-unity of Germany wasnt actually one in the meaning of the word, it would mean GDR and FRG were talk partners of the same level and possibilites, that's not true, after the fall-down of the Communist government it was obvious the GDR will be connected to the FRG although there were voices saying why not keeping the GDR trying to take the good parts of the Capitalist FRG (like economical wealth) and the good parts of theoretical Communism (workers rights, womens rights etc. for those who dont know womens rights in the GDR were more advanced than in the FRG, former GDR women were often surprised how many women in the FRG were still in the traditional role of house-wives ("cooking, cleaning, getting fucked.."), oh well, I'm getting 64 off-topic, all I want to say the GDR was added to the FRG and not both united.
2007-01-27 23:55
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote:
I strongly support Kosova remaining part of Serbia

In that case, ultra-nationalists (aka Radicals) in the Serbian gouverment is a good news for you as they're the only ones who are sharing your idea :) I'm quite sure that the only peaceful solution is an autonomy with strong international presence. And that will probably be the case, but ask me in a year or two.

Btw. I must agree that including ex-countries for historical purposes to the list is not a bad idea at all. For releases and events, that is. *Looking in the way of Perff*
2007-01-28 00:38
The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
They were all colonies of the mighty roman empire. Buhuhahhahaaha :)
2007-01-28 01:07
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Actually I wish I was living in Italy instead of this garbage heap. I adore pasta, Vespa and Italian girls (as seen on Rai Uno).
2007-01-28 02:15
Rough
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Autonomy with international presence is currently the case. Or do you mean an own state with "autonomy"? In that case it will be difficult to argue why the UN or the NATO should install their forces in an independent country for a longer time than it already does. Also I don't call international presence a peaceful solution. Furthermore an independent Kosova will increase the discrimination of Serbs, Jews, Roma-Sinti and all other 'non-Islamic/Kosova ethic' groups in that area.

I hardly know anything about the Radical party goals but I heard they tend to racist ideas, which concludes altogether I'd prefer the Democratic coalition as government, cos I doubt the Serbian politics and the UN will leave Kosova into independency anyhow.
2007-01-28 04:10
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote:
Autonomy with international presence is currently the case. Or do you mean an own state with "autonomy"?
Kosovo is not an autonomy in its current state (it was, from 1945 till the end of the eigthies), but a province of Serbia (just like Vojvodina - the northern part of Serbia), without the rights of a territorial, political or economical autonomy.

The deal is, Ahtisaari will soon propose a limited suverenity of Kosovo with political and economical authorities but with strong guarantees for the minorities (also note that the actual proposition is still mostly unknown, so it's mainly random guessing going on). The whole idea will probably grow into a full independency of Kosovo, and Kostunica even declined to meet Ahtisaari when he announced his visit to Belgrade.
What you might not be awared of is the other side of the story: that the major part of the Serbian gouverment is actually not against the independency, the catch is that they wouldn't like to let it happen during their mandate as it would decrease their popularity - and believe me, that's the only motive for their hesitation.

Serbia will have problems with Kosovo till the end of time, and it seems they have learned their lessons from Croatia and Bosnia. They still tend to argue and fight, but give up in the end for their own good. Only the Radicals stick to it due to historical/etnical reasons - there is no other "logical" explanation for holding to Kosovo as they don't gain anything from the territory.

So under the term "autonomy" I mean Kosovo remaining as a part of Serbia, but with autonomic gouverment and economy with the remaining presence of NATO forces, there is no other way to solve the situation than this. Except for (limited) independence - well, the difference is mainly in the legal term as Kosovo is already in the hand of the Albanians.

By the way, up to my knowledge Radicals are not racist (however it's a high probablitity that there are many racists amongst them) but nationalists. They don't differentiate people by their skin-color, yet by their nationality. Both are lunatic ideas but still, there was even a black guy in their party for some years. I'm not sure if he was Serb, though. :D
2007-01-28 06:47
The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
Serbian radicals are national-communists imho. At least they're "nephews" of Tito.
2007-01-28 09:47
Rough
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Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
You're wrong. The successors of Tito's party are the SPS (achieving app. 6% in the recent elections).
2007-01-28 11:19
The Overkiller
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Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
Dunno if I'm 100% wrong. In which party Milosevic was?
2007-01-28 12:16
Rough
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Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
now that's something you could look up yourself, isnt it? It was the SDS as well.
2007-01-28 14:34
The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
Whoa, what a mess of parties ... So radicals are SRS and their socialist allies are SDS. Now I start to figure it out...
2007-01-28 15:26
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Just a few lines more...

The "bad ones":

SRS = Srpska Radikalna Stranka (Serbian Radical Party)

Ultra-nationalist far-right, their leader is the infamous Vojislav Seselj, currently spending quality-time in a comfy jail in Hague. Took a very active part in ethnic cleansing during the war. They have a close connection with Le Pen's National Front. Like for every far-right party, mostly uneducated working class vote for them.

SPS = Socijalisticka Partija Srbije (Socialist Party of Serbia)

Based on the League of Serbian Communists, formed by Slobodan Milosevic, gouverned the country during and after the war together with SRS and JUL. A bunch of nationalist idiots, hence the coalition. SPS's voter-base is mostly assembled from old people nostalgic about the good old communist regime (they're slowly dying out, though) plus uneducated peasants from the middle and the south of the country.

(JUL = Jugoslovenska Levica (Yugoslavian Left)

An extremist red party of Milosevic's Wife, Mirjana Markovic. A small laughing stock that doesn't exist any more. They were in close connection with China's, Korea's and Cuba's communist parties.)


The "good ones":

Currently, all other parties (DS, DSS, LDP...) are mostly democratic right, liberals or ethnic democratic parties (Hungarians, Romas...), but basically European-oriented. So Serbian people actually choose democratic gouverment, only the votes were spreaded to 5-6 parties. Still, it's their coalition that will form the gouverment in this period, whilst SRS and SPS will stay in opposition with around 40%.

OK, I'm really fullfilled with it so this was my last post about the political situation in Serbia, for more info you should visit http://www.b92.net/eng/
2007-01-28 15:40
The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
Interesting... in few words a far-right party supported a left-far party and their leader to take power (Milosevic).
2007-01-28 16:32
PopMilo

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 146
Im also from a town wich is located on a teritory wich was once part of country that was called "Jugoslavija" :)

Ill try to get back closer to the topic :)

I think there should be Country listed as "Yugoslavia", There could be "Serbia and Montenegro", and now and for the future releases, there should be "Serbia" and "Montenegro"...

Hopefully there wont be any more dividing, we are small enough already :)

If some sceners appear from "Kosovo" let them choose where do they consider themselves belonging to...

As long as there are releases I dont care :) commodore is one and only nationality! :)

p.s. You ever heard of "Divide and conquer" strategy :)
2007-01-28 22:07
Conrad

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 856
I remember an Amiga demo I watched that was released in 1992 by a Croatian group called "Reality Croatia" (I think it was called "Kwnin Peaks" or something like that) In that demo some of the English text pronounced the country as Serbia instead of Yugoslavia.
2007-01-28 22:49
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote: I remember an Amiga demo I watched that was released in 1992 by a Croatian group called "Reality Croatia" (I think it was called "Kwnin Peaks" or something like that) In that demo some of the English text pronounced the country as Serbia instead of Yugoslavia.

Knin Peaks by Reality
2007-01-28 22:59
Conrad

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 856
That's the one :)
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