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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Non-C64 releases
as far as I remember, it is "The C-64 Scene Database"...
Either releases like the Crest C128 demo get deleted/not added or I demand a decent possibility to also add Amiga, PC, PSX etc. releases...
Which is it? =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
yes very good point!
guess i'll start adding our psx/gbc/dc/etc blabla releases soonish if nothing else happens :o) |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
I think it's ok that "risen from oblivion" is added. C128 is allmost a C64 (if it makes any sense to say that.. :) It's got a C64 mode f.e.), and the demo was released in the C64 scene (allthough it was for C128).
It was a demo to show C64 effects improved with the extra C128 capabilities... But i don't know... |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
there's quite a few Amiga releases that started out using the same effects the C64 demos used to have, there's a C64 Emulator for Amiga and the machine was made by Commodore...
there's GBC stuff that has the same effects as C64 demos, made by C64 sceners like Groepaz and the machine has 8-bit...
there's C64 demos that copy famous PC demos...
there's C64 groups that have PSX/PC/Amiga sections...
PC ANSI graphics are very similar to C64 C/G graphics...
where does it start, where does it end?
the only resonable line that can be drawn is to make it "C64 only", that's why the thing is called C64 Scene Database, not Commodore Scene Database...
of course, the last word to this should come from the maintainers, but if C128 stuff is allowed, I can already sense the trouble... |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
There is not a C-128 scene, Crest and Oxyron are coming from C64 scene, the demo was released for C64 community which has C-128 machine, so I really don't know where else it could be listed if not here. The same goes for productions made for, or benefiting from SuperCPU, Retro/Action Replay, IDE-64 or whatever equipment. I'm sure everyone of us can recognise the gap between C64 release and other plattform release. That's why for example c64.sk rejects the MP3 remixes and game remakes as non-c64 releases. Of course Risen from oblivion shouldn't be voteable in demo-charts.
I see worse problem in the fact that some sceners in database never had C64 and never ever did anything on C64. I don't know if it's only a case of Phantasy, or there are more examples, and I really don't want to start any witch-hunting-orgy, but this is imo more serious problem. |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
well.. it IS voteable and it even occupied the first spot until _someone_ downvoted it by using the WA-given opportunity...
now what? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Maybe "exclude from charts" option could help it. |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
maybe it doesn't... who's to set it and could it be reset by someone else? is it locked with the rest of the entry (if the entry is locked)?
a C128 demo is NO C64 demo, so it should NOT be listed in the category C64 demo... if you really NEED demos like this listed in this database, it needs a new category...
"almost C64 demo" =) |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
Seven is right. How about just plain "C128 Demo", or "C128 Production" (<- to cover all C128 releases somehow connected with the C64-scene (not many i guess, but still)) |
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Carcass
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 17 |
shut up you idiots!
why this stupid fuckin argument? who cares about the psx or amiga...
C128 is perfectly acceptable |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Hello and nice to see you joined us here in our friendly discussion forum.
If you can't play by the rules and join the discussion in a proper way instead of submitting non-productive flames, why don't you pack your surfboard, hit the waves and leave the discussion to those who care, california boy?
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Carcass
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 17 |
ok... let me tell you something constructive then.
#1 - you don't need to double click on the submit button, that way you only post once.
#2 - this is not your message board, so you don't make the rules.
#3 - if the best you can do is ban me from the irc channel for stepping on you little toes, don't bother, no one cares
#4 - don't rag, if you don't know how, coz you'll get killed
#5 - this discussion is clearly stupid. why would you even bring up shit like psx or gayboy? they obiously have their own scenes and what not, that are totally unrelated to C=
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote: shut up you idiots!
why this stupid fuckin argument? who cares about the psx or amiga...
C128 is perfectly acceptable
you gotta have best chances to become next president in the US,
perfect attitude :o)
"shut up YOU idiot! who carez about c128?"
now WHATTHEHELL does make my "argument" less valid than yours?
please explain.
"amiga is perfectly acceptable"
amiga is not a c64. c128 is not a c64. amiga is made by commodore. c128 is made by commodore.
where is the difference? please explain.
and please, keep your nonconstructive childish blabla for yourself. we are discussing here to make this thing better (the BEST) - not to continue the never ending stupid OS- and system- flames that we had in the 80s already.
if YOU dont care about amiga or psx, fine. _I_ for once give a fuck about c128.
where is the difference? please explain. |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
figured it'd be easier for you to grasp the content if I posted it twice, but obviously you still didn't manage...
but yes, of course you're right, it's not my message board, but we nevertheless had a halfway decent and constructive discussion in here until you popped up out of nowhere and - obviously without the least of a clue as to what this was about - dropped your moronic comment...
a couple of days ago, different topic, I tried to explain to someone that the C64 Scene was and is not about friendship, and you so perfectly demonstrated that there's always some assholes looking for a fight - I should actually thank you for that...
Now what? Am I to be scared? Bow to the superior 31337 american C64 scener who will "kill" me should I decide to stay, not take his shit and instead continue making suggestions for further development of this database?
I suggest you re-read the posts of this forum, re-evaluate your own posts, then come back with decent arguments explaining why C128 demos should be listed as "C64 demos" and why the C-64 scene should be the home of a computer that just never managed to get its own scene developed... |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
In my mind, C128 is like C64 V2.
It can be used as a C64, and is fully C64 compatible, if coders doesn't make C128-protections, or stores into the extra I/O-adresses on the C128, which are not connected on a C64, but are on a C128 even in C64-mode. (Btw, C64-mode is not emulated - it runs on a 6510 as in a C64)
Many C64 demos has extra effects or runs at a greater speed, if they runs on a C128 in C64-mode.
I'm writing this to state why the C128 is closer releted to the C64, than Amiga, psx, pc, speccy (etc) are. C128 runs C64 programs and are compatible with C64 hardware. Hell, as i wrote b4, many C64 demos are even designed to show extra effects when they run on a C128. So they are pretty close to eachother. Hope you will all agree with me on this.
BUT, since a C128 demo (like "risen from oblivion" - the issue of our discussion) doesn't run on a C64, i see the sence in not putting it into the "C64 Demo"-category.
This is why i think there should (as i wrote in a previous post) be made some/a new C128 category, because C128 is so close to the C64. Will that be acceptable?
Also, the same ofcause applies for the SuperCPU. SuperCPU releases doesn't run on a C64, so they shouldn't be listed as C64 releases, but since SuperCPU is as close related to C64 as it is, it should also be in CSDb like the C128 should. (<- in my oppinion ofcoz' - i'm NOT trying to tell you what you must think, so don't gimme that)
Maybe (if there should be only 1 category) the names could be "C128 Release" and "SuperCPU Release" (and maybe "C65 Release" if there are any of them) |
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Carcass
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 17 |
never mind, fuck it, why bother |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Don't know if I got a vote here (in the end I caused the trouble by adding the demo ;-), but I agree with you Cyberbrain, and I can understand your concerns, Seven and Groepaz.
But I wonder why you make such a fuzz about it, there's hardly more than a handful of C128 (-related) productions out there, so I don't really see the point in discussing this with such a hard attitude.
If there would be a comparatively big C128 scene I'd also agree that adding C128 demos would dilute the database or mix things up unnecessarily, but with only 3 demos that I know of that use the VDC this is kind of nitpicking (i.e. Higher Level, Coma Light 11 and RFO). Any more I don't know of?
If you really want to be that strict the logical consequence would be banning _all_ productions that don't run on the _unmodified_ C64, so SCPU and demos that make use of additional hardware would have to be locked out, too. And that I would consider a loss.
I'd suggest to leave all this stuff out of the voting or give them a new category, so voting keeps as fair as possible. |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
actually... yes, I think SuperCPU stuff should not go into the same category as "normal" C64 stuff either...
So get the few C128 and SuperCPU stuff its own category and I guess that can be a solution we can all live with... I just don't want it mixed up with the regular C64 releases, that's why I came up with the exaggerated examples of Amiga/PC/PSX/GBC releases... |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
100% agreed! |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Has there ever been another C128 demo comparable to Risen*?
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
AFAIK there is nothing that can be compared to that. In fact I know no other demo that has been programmed to work on a C128 only. |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
...But maybe someone else knows of other C128 demos, and puts them into CSDb if the C128-catogory is being made. (would be very interesting) |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2928 |
If people want to include a category for 128 then we better include categories for Vic-20, C16, and Plus/4. Each of them has scene made demos, tools, etc.
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Celtic
Administrator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807 |
That is not the point. The c128 is an expansion for c64, it is the upgrade...
to put a little comparison: the pc scene
what if there was a database, and every edition had to be marked as 486 demo, 286 demo, pentium II demo, etc.
There should be a c128 option since it is a part of the c64 scene, in a way, and no other system is! Remember that. If you have a c128 and you enter the scene, you are called a C64 scener! so No, no vic20, psx, amiga etc.. |
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Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
I think Celtic is right here!!! Most guys with a c128 were/are in the c64 scene (because they use the c128 mostly in c64-mode or use the c128 as a memory expansion in crunchers and so for c64 source codes). A vic 20 has never been part of a c64 scene, because the difference is too big! You can't see the c64 products on the Vic 20.
But to satisfy everybody, I would suggest about a c128-section somewhere inside this database...
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
The C128 is not just an expansion of the C64. It's an own and advanced computer.
Actually there are more 64 people doing demos on the VIC-20 e.g. Horizon, Mermaid/Creators, look at CreamD's page for latest while there is nothing done on the 128.
The only other C128 demos I know are just some simple graphic effects demos, mostly to show what is possible in basic 7.0
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Gee, CreaMD's page? ;-)) I would never be able to run it on my own. That page is maintained by sceners, anyone can post news without any problem. |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
The issue is not wether C64-sceners makes demos on other computers or not. (<- then the PC should be in CSDb too... ARGH!) The issue is if the C128 *computer* is closely related to the C64 computer or not. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
I agree with Cyberbrain. Just make C128 production and SCPU production cathegory and that would solve the problems with identification I think. |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Amen. |
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KLR
Administrator
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 67 |
Amen. "C128 Release" and "SuperCPU Release" releasetypes added. |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
Now that we're talking about SuperCPU... Was there ever any releases for Flash8? Does it need it's own category? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
I only know about assembly package, Assblaster? or something like that. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
2 Mhz Hell by Nop/Weird Science (better known as Cycleburner also has at least one part which runs on c128 only .. but if memory doesn't fail me, the first part DID run on c64, so what to do, what to do? :)
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
If the thing as a whole only runs on C128, it's a C128 demo, isn't it? =) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
I guess it is totally stupid to discuss something for years when there are less than two hands full off 128 demos out. As 128 is the big-brother of the C64 it really makes no sense in leaving these demos out.
There is no system closer to the C64 and it was done by C64 sceners.
I really don't get the point why Seven and co are that bullheaded to not accepting these. There are for sure things which are of more importance than bubbleing about this crap topic over and over again just to be Mr. 100% correctness. Fill this database with life not with unimportant shit-talk.
this is just my humble point of view
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Slater, I'm sure you noticed by now that this topic has been resolved for quite a while now, so your "humble opinion" came a little late...
why don't you "fill the database with life" instead of replying to old and resolved discussions? =) |
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KLR
Administrator
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 67 |
Ahem. Closing topic =) |
