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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
creating "collection" of graphics/demos on a single subject?
whilst uploading and viewing stuff on here it occurred to me that there is quite alot of 2000ad inspired art and demos from the 80's up on here.
i was wondering if it would be acceptable to create a 2000ad "collection" database entry containing just entries on this subject. and if it was acceptable, what would be the best way of going about it?
Steve |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Need "tags" really, then there'd be no need for specific groups, stuff would just get grouped automatically based on the tag you're interested in..
Just a suggestion mind :P
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I'm whining for tags since years, but nobody seems to give a flying fuck :) |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
I suppose it might be a fairly big job to add depending how the site runs/is organised atm. Maybe something for the theoretical "gallery" ;) Or, Ste, ask the C64pixels guys, they've got tags already by the look of it?..
*edit*
In fact, I just happened to see a Dredd pic on the main page, with a 2000ad tag :) So it's already implemented, just needs more stuff uploaded there but they're doing that every day so it'll get there.. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
http://www.c64pixels.com handles tags.
It's not complete but intended.
Check out i.e. the 'dragon'-Topic tag:
http://c64pixels.com/main.php?g2_view=keyalbum.KeywordAlbum&g2_..
Or the Girl & Dog theme:
http://c64pixels.com/main.php?g2_view=keyalbum.KeywordAlbum&g2_.. |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 227 |
Tags would simply be awesome.
No more dismisses in searching things without the correct title: That goes for everything, games, artwork, music and so forth. |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 227 |
Tags would simply be awesome! The work of that would be our legacy, just as finding releases to the database.
I think there are a handful of persons ready for that 24/7 work. But as the base is still building, why not?
No more dismisses in searching things without the correct title: That goes for everything, games, artwork, music and so forth.
Imagine, just poking in "Dragon" on CSDb and all releases popping up and one might just be happy.
Hell there might even be a dragon effect in some demo somewhere ;) |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
I agree, tags would be good |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
yeah i have already spoken to motion about a 2000ad tag for pixels.
but there are are also demos and demos with internal art that could benefit from tags here too.
Steve |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
Quote:Imagine, just poking in "Dragon" on CSDb and all releases popping up and one might just be happy.
Hell there might even be a dragon effect in some demo somewhere ;)
yeah, finally beeing able to delete all that crap with a single click.... would rock :o) |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
So in order to have this we would need to contact Perff and hopefully he's not too busy :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
HA HA :=)
and if there wouldnt be a three pages todo list already, it could eventually even be implemented in 2035 =) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
the 2000ad shows the advantages but also their disadvantages. tags only make sense if they give conclusive results and handle the complete collection.
right after motion added this i was looking for references which characters belong to that label. checked http://www.2000adonline.com/ and my first impression was that you need an expert because of the amount of characters. what about marvel, dc, epic, heavy metal and all the other well known comic publishers?
some people asked me about tags which belong to different styles which often can hardly be specified.
on first sight tags are useful for sure. but imo it is necessary to check each one of them if they are really useful on the long run.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
Quote:on first sight tags are useful for sure. but imo it is necessary to check each one of them if they are really useful on the long run.
and thats *exactly* why we don't have them here :) |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
tags are more of a crowdsourcing thing, nobody expects mods etc to go tag everything or a single person to be an expert in 2000ad. Of course you'd get people disagreeing about tags but meh, maybe some 1+ needs 2- to remove and even if you end up with a few that aren't useful the majority will be. |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
Quote: the 2000ad shows the advantages but also their disadvantages. tags only make sense if they give conclusive results and handle the complete collection.
right after motion added this i was looking for references which characters belong to that label. checked http://www.2000adonline.com/ and my first impression was that you need an expert because of the amount of characters. what about marvel, dc, epic, heavy metal and all the other well known comic publishers?
some people asked me about tags which belong to different styles which often can hardly be specified.
on first sight tags are useful for sure. but imo it is necessary to check each one of them if they are really useful on the long run.
well,
in the case of 2000ad i am sure that Pete or myself could quite easily be asked and tbh there will not be much in the way of 2000ad that we cannot answer your questions on :)
and honestly a 2000ad tag for pictures will generate a gallery as big if not bigger than any other "genre" you could have on pixels.
Steve |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
even bigger than the one emerging behind the "best viewed with pepto palette" tag? =P |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
that tag only generates any hits when used with "post 1995 artists" or "groepaz" tags ;)
Steve |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
or maybe with the "people that actually looked at a real c64 setup recently" tag? who knows? |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
right i replied with a wink but can u just piss off now and not troll this perfectly reasonable thread into another "pepto thread"?
thanks in advance
Steve |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
@Groepaz: STE'86 told me that he thinks you're a silly lamer. Don't tell him that I told you about it though.
@STE'86: Groepaz told me that he thinks you're a silly lamer. Don't tell him that I told you about it though. |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
csdb top 5 graphic modes by number of entries:
1. undefined (1717+ /was kicked at this amount)
2. multicolor (1254)
3. ifli (366)
4. hires (221)
5. fli (156)
somehow i have a strong feeling that crowdsourced tags would not be the best idea... |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Quote: csdb top 5 graphic modes by number of entries:
1. undefined (1717+ /was kicked at this amount)
2. multicolor (1254)
3. ifli (366)
4. hires (221)
5. fli (156)
somehow i have a strong feeling that crowdsourced tags would not be the best idea...
Sorry, I'm not seeing your problem? Is it just the amount of files? |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
edited:
i will refrain from posting a rebuke until you explain exactly what was wrong with the results you posted.
Steve |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
tags would also be optional. if the search attributes would be enlarged you would not automatically get better results.
check the top lists on csdb and count the avarage no of votes. take a look at oldschool or non-party releases, how many of them even get 5 votes for an avarage rating. it is obvious that there are simply not enough active sceners around for proper tagging.
why not dealing with current issues, why not adding missing graphic modes first? more than 1700 undefined entries out of 4420. this is more than 30% in case of a clearly defined attribute!!!
at bitfellas artcity there was a huge automatic upload recently about 700+ graphics directly from csdb including 85 pics with really bad screenshots (ifli showing single frames, overexposed colors, buggy data). why not looking for those first to keep the database in a good shape?
do not get me wrong. tags are a good idea, definitely. but imo you underestimate the effort to avoid chaos. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Tags are great.
I just did a search for Judge Death and it found 3 images I hadnt seen before:
Judge Death [-]
Judge Death
Judge Death [1986]
Judge Death
Judge Death II [1986]
Judge Death II
If Tags had been in effect, then, this would have been found,
as it too features Judge Death
Sex Death Art [1997]
Sex Death Art
I wonder how many more Judge Death pictures are on CSDb |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
but i still cant see some of your logic Veto. u say basically that there arent enuf sceners to tag usefully...
but if just myself tags MY relavent pics with 2000ad then you would get 4-5 more entries in a search than if you just searched for 2000ad currently.
so surely ANY increase in positive search returns are better than none at all?
Steve |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Quote: tags would also be optional. if the search attributes would be enlarged you would not automatically get better results.
check the top lists on csdb and count the avarage no of votes. take a look at oldschool or non-party releases, how many of them even get 5 votes for an avarage rating. it is obvious that there are simply not enough active sceners around for proper tagging.
why not dealing with current issues, why not adding missing graphic modes first? more than 1700 undefined entries out of 4420. this is more than 30% in case of a clearly defined attribute!!!
at bitfellas artcity there was a huge automatic upload recently about 700+ graphics directly from csdb including 85 pics with really bad screenshots (ifli showing single frames, overexposed colors, buggy data). why not looking for those first to keep the database in a good shape?
do not get me wrong. tags are a good idea, definitely. but imo you underestimate the effort to avoid chaos.
I can understand seeing missing info from crowdsourced tagging as a problem but as you pointed it's already a problem and you've then suggested people do the thing you've said they're incapable of (or there aren't enough people to do) by fixing current stuff. If there are users willing to do that I wouldn't see a problem with them tagging "Judge Dredd" "Dragon" etc as they go.
Tags by their nature are never going to be complete but I think any extra info, no matter if it's incomplete is much better than none at all.
You're right about the old school stuff of course but I think that's just because people don't see them, but that's voting.. Ask old school sceners or people who knew them to tag their own files/friends files and you'd get a lot of that done fairly quickly. Maybe then if demos were tagged with FLD, Multiplexer, etc a tag search would show people things they'd never otherwise have seen... :)
Pete
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
you are speaking of one single tag. think of 88096 entries in this database. did you have seen the tag clowd at artcity? probably you get the idea what i am talking about.
http://artcity.bitfellas.org/index.php?a=tagcloud |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Quote: you are speaking of one single tag. think of 88096 entries in this database. did you have seen the tag clowd at artcity? probably you get the idea what i am talking about.
http://artcity.bitfellas.org/index.php?a=tagcloud
Not seeing a problem. As I said, tags aren't ever going to be complete. You might tag something Dragon and tag ALL the dragons on csdb, then someone might go, "but I want RED dragons!!" but at least they've found some dragons to narrow down their "red" search. As long as people are aware it's not an exact method for returning results they'll get more than they currently would and know there are possibly others available.
Anyway, no point turning this into another one of THOSE threads ;) It's ultimately up to whoever makes the decisions and if it's possible/they have the time/are capable etc |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
i am still not seeing a problem?
currently if you search for 2000ad (as an example)
you get 3 results with 2000ad in the title
now if tags were implemented and i tagged mine you would get a further 4-5 come up.
how does getting more relavent search returns equal a problem?
and it search clouds bother you then dont display the buggers.
Steve |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
speaking of c64pixels i do not see a problem either if motion, enthusi and me together can provide a specification for comic heroes in general. one rule is that there should be no gaps for tags. |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
ok this is encouraging but i am not sure how to interpret "no gaps for tags"
do u mean that everything must be tagged? (i think u will have alot more trouble tagging modern stuff because from what i have seen its far more abstract/fine art than the classic stuff)
you wouldnt really have to decide on a "specification" for anything.
take for instance my judge dredd, its tags would probably be something like:
Judge Dredd, Judge, Dredd, 2000ad, comic
pretty straightforward i think.
i would gladly provide tags and search terms for all my stuff and help on any oldschool stuff i could
Steve |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
The search for Judge Death btw would be simplified if the uploader would have listed that 'name' in the AKA field, which is what should be done currently. So it turns up in searches. For the mentioned need I see no reason to TAG things. Though this is slightly off-topic now.
I like tags for gfx, I was among those that 'demanded' gfx-modes (and especially HiRes) in CSDb. That's a reasonable tag. 'red dragons' isnt in _my_ point of view. |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
steve: it is similar to the idea to add tags for the original artist like boris vallejo. if the pic that has been added recently is not clear the pic will not be published until things are cleared up.
if a visitor of c64pixels sends a message assuming one picture is a copy it goes straight ahead to the currently hidden "missing reference folder".
if we add a new tag for topic (code T/) this is binding the whole database. |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
Quote: The search for Judge Death btw would be simplified if the uploader would have listed that 'name' in the AKA field, which is what should be done currently. So it turns up in searches. For the mentioned need I see no reason to TAG things. Though this is slightly off-topic now.
I like tags for gfx, I was among those that 'demanded' gfx-modes (and especially HiRes) in CSDb. That's a reasonable tag. 'red dragons' isnt in _my_ point of view.
do you not?
so if i wanted to see all the pics on csdb from the genre of 2000ad then i could do this how? serching for 200ad brings up 3 demos and no pics.
if i could
a) add them to a collection or preferably
b) add tags i could get to see the same 3 demos PLUS
4-5 of my own pics plus judge dredds from Dokk and Cas, the 4 judge deaths already mentioned, another armageddon pic by IG, waldo the demo from skuzz and at least 3 nemesis the warlock pics.
these are all just off the top of my head without further searching.
see the need now? and just maybe if people actually got to see the classic stuff, they might even vote on it :)
further genres for tags could be "movie" "portrait" "self portrait" "sci fi" "fantasy" etc ad nauseum
Steve |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Groepaz shits in the nettles again... |
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GT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308 |
What a stupid community this has evolved into. Normal humans respects eachother. Kidz... |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
@enthusi
'Red_Dragon' sure, but 'Dragon' would be fine.
For single graphic releases, a limit of 10 tags would be ideal.
For single audio releases, a limit of 10 tages would be ideal.
For multi part demos, a limit of 50 tags would be ideal.
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Quoting GeirWhat a stupid community this has evolved into. Normal humans respects eachother. Kidz...
This is nothing new, of course ... it's always been this way ... |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
I don't think "red dragon" is a sensible tag either (it's not really what I said). 2 tags, red and dragon, why not? Then you've still got the standard dragon tag and someone might have decided to add "red" tag to some of them. The idea is if someone wants to further subdivide a tag search result by adding colour themes/whatever to them then it's only adding more options to help people find specific images.
Once again, not saying it's necessary just don't see a problem if someone wanted to do it. |
