| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
When is a One-File Demo not a One-File Demo?
So, I've finally finished a small release (title+one effect+music), except it's 250 blocks long even before I decrunch it; initial load is from $0801 to $fffe
It's all a single file, that if I send to my c64 via codenet it runs just fine standalone, but in order to make it loadable with stock 1541+c64 I'm bundling it with the Effluvium loader. (cf Packer/decruncher for under IO?)
Should I make the Release Type "C64 One-File Demo" or "C64 Demo"? |
|
| |
Ejner
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 43 |
c64 demo imo. |
| |
WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
Good question..
A while ago, there was this single-load slideshow that fitted in one file that was >600 blocks long.. now, is that a singlefile demo or a demo? I'd say the latter...
As for this, I'm not sure :) |
| |
Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
Single and stand-alone file executable that don't need a disk image (d64....) to load data?
If disk image is needed... should be named "demo"...
IMHO. |
| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
@Flavioweb, Well, disk image is not needed to run the thing; all the effects code, graphics and music are all in a single 250 block file that starts with "10 sys2061". It's just that the kernal load routines are too stupid to load under ROM/IO. Any decent fastload cart should be able to load it directly.
@WVL, how can a 600 block file be single load? Surely there's only room in the c64 for 258 blocks, and even that wouldn't leave room for a loader?
Anyway, I'll go with c64 demo for now I guess; corrections welcome. |
| |
Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 504 |
@ChristopherJam: Now stop making us wet and release this thing!!! :-)
I'd say anything that fits into memory with a single loading action is considered a onefile-demo. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: @ChristopherJam: Now stop making us wet and release this thing!!! :-)
I'd say anything that fits into memory with a single loading action is considered a onefile-demo.
Agree, and if it doesn't work with standard KERNEL loader then it's a crippled one filer. If you then add a loader to it to make it work with KERNEL it will become a demo. :) |
| |
The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Did You try ALZ64 to squeeze the file into 202 blocks? If it works just make two downloadable versions. One for impatient cartridge owners and one for all the others ;)
ALZ64 |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: So, I've finally finished a small release (title+one effect+music), except it's 250 blocks long even before I decrunch it; initial load is from $0801 to $fffe
It's all a single file, that if I send to my c64 via codenet it runs just fine standalone, but in order to make it loadable with stock 1541+c64 I'm bundling it with the Effluvium loader. (cf Packer/decruncher for under IO?)
Should I make the Release Type "C64 One-File Demo" or "C64 Demo"?
so where do you decrunch to? $0000-$0800 ? :D |
| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Ok, it's up. Jam Ball 2
@The Human Code Machine, it's already crunched!
Very good @Oswald. (FWIW I decrunch to $0200 to $ff6a :P) |
| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
My apologies The Human Code Machine, I was overly dismissive of your suggestion. For some reason I didn't think of applying ALZ64 to the released file, rather than the precrunched file.
I'd thought ALZ64 was a poor fit because it requires the input file size to be in range $0003..$F800, which prior to using my own simplistic packer Jam Balls exceeds.
However, the file I load from disk is just under the upper limit, so I just gave it a go.
It's pretty effective, but sadly not enough to make this a one filer. File size drops from 250 blocks to 230. Decrunching also takes forever! |
| |
WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
Quote: @Flavioweb, Well, disk image is not needed to run the thing; all the effects code, graphics and music are all in a single 250 block file that starts with "10 sys2061". It's just that the kernal load routines are too stupid to load under ROM/IO. Any decent fastload cart should be able to load it directly.
@WVL, how can a 600 block file be single load? Surely there's only room in the c64 for 258 blocks, and even that wouldn't leave room for a loader?
Anyway, I'll go with c64 demo for now I guess; corrections welcome.
I meant this slideshow : Nocode-slide by tlr.
It's a single file, but does it count as a onefiler or not? It doesn't even contain any code at all.... |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2970 |
If you count tlr's nocode slideshow as a onefiler, you must also count single-filed IFFL stuff as onefilers. May be correct in a certain way, but feels odd.
I go with Jackasser. Classic onefilers are up to 202 blocks, $0801-$cfff, and load in a single pass before running, no autostart, no tricks, no disk images.
If non-standard load is required (to load under IO and ROM), it's a "crippled onefiler" indeed.
If you add a loader, it's a demo. :) |
| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Clearest statement yet.
*upvotes Krill's comment* |
| |
WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
I did say that I counted that slideshow as a demo, no? :) I'm just saying that the difference between demo/onefiler might not be that easy to define.. |
| |
ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Nocode-slide is a very cool hack.
It's also an excellent demonstration of the inappropriateness of a simplistic "single file = one file demo" rule. Thanks for bringing it up, WVL. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: Nocode-slide is a very cool hack.
It's also an excellent demonstration of the inappropriateness of a simplistic "single file = one file demo" rule. Thanks for bringing it up, WVL.
How about: If you can LOAD, and then SAVE and get a correct copy of the file, then it's a single file, otherwise demo. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
/nitpicking
i think this is in the grey zone, what if I can load it in with a software fastloader? it's still loadable with a stock machine, and its still one file only :P
at the end of the day it doesnt really matters. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
i cant believe you are discussing this... seriously? time to remove some more useless categories.... |
| |
algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
One file demo: Single file only that does not rely on any additional files (eg loader etc) to start as well as being able to run without the help of any additional hardware (cartridges) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11364 |
how about: if it is one file, then it is one file?
*shakes head* |
| |
WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
By that definition, nocode-slide is a single file demo. But I kinda disagree with that :) |
| |
Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
It's a one-file demo if you start it with RUN and it still works if you remove the disk from the drive before hitting RETURN. |
| |
enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
if you can load AND execute it with kernal TAPE load its a one-filer.
(Disk)drive code renders it non-one-file ;-) |
