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Lord Crucifier
Registered: Feb 2004 Posts: 49 |
In the Dutch news: Fairlight busted
The following is part of a story about the police busting Dutch dorms on the hunt for illegal software:
"Op internet gaan geruchten dat de computerkrakersbende Fairlight is opgerold. De leden houden zich sinds 1986 bezig met het inbreken in computers, later hebben ze zich toegelegd op de verspreiding van illegale software, zoals computerspelletjes.
Op de universiteit van Twente zouden arrestaties zijn verricht. Op internetadressen die zijn gelieerd aan de universiteit circuleren foto's van de inbeslagname van systeemkasten bij een studentencomplex op de campus.
Een Duits hobbymagazine schrijft dat Fairlight spoedige publicatie van het nieuwe schietspel Hitman 3 heeft aangekondigd. Het actiespel voor zowel de PC, XboX als Playstation verschijnt officieel op 30 april en kost in de winkel 60 euro. "Als de berichten kloppen is de illegale verspreiding van computerspellen een zware slag toegebracht", aldus de redactie van Game Vision."
Basically it says an old hacker group called Fairlight has been caught for cracking and spreading illegal software. It mentions they started hacking in 1986 and went on to cracking software later on.
I'm not very known with todays PC/console w4r3z-scene, but this is not OUR Fairlight, now is it?? |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002 Posts: 588 |
Well, Fairlight C64 and Fairlight PC are two seperative things. Failight PC has also been busted some time ago (last year if I rememeber correctly) so no worries, Fairlight will still produce C64 stuff :D |
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Puterman Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002 Posts: 188 |
Thanks Nafcom, I was a bit worried there for a while. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002 Posts: 1570 |
Quote: Well, Fairlight C64 and Fairlight PC are two seperative things. Failight PC has also been busted some time ago (last year if I rememeber correctly) so no worries, Fairlight will still produce C64 stuff :D
It was even on the Dutch 8 o' clock news.
From the report: "Fairlight is active since the 80's"
So they mixed 'our' FLT with that other one up.
If you're interested in watching the report:
Windows Media Player : http://portal.omroep.nl/mplayer?nav=iynvGsHEdGeZtHfQuC&mpstream..
RealPlayer : http://portal.omroep.nl/mplayer?nav=iynvGsHEdGeZtHfQuC&mpstream..
And slide to approx 12 minutes.
!Beware! Dutch language! ;-)
R. |
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drake Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002 Posts: 207 |
funny anyway....
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002 Posts: 588 |
@drake: They simply can't stand out of troubles.
@Puterman: You are welcome
@SCouT: They have been gown up (PC section) from their C64 roots as far as I know, so it's neither 100% wrong nor 100% correct from the Dutch News Flash |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 1927 |
Strider e.g. is founder of the PC and Console section and was a founder of the C64 section aswell --- this connects the groups and their history. I am not too sure about other members, but FLT indeed has a long lasting and release rich history. :)
l8r
Count Zero/CyberpunX/SCS*TRC |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002 Posts: |
and I don`'t think that such stuff belongs to a c64 board.
It would sound very strange if the FBI arrests a bunch of C64 demo-guys nowadays.
And FLT is FLT, there is just "one", they just have separate "sublabels"
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002 Posts: 241 |
Quote: and I don`'t think that such stuff belongs to a c64 board.
It would sound very strange if the FBI arrests a bunch of C64 demo-guys nowadays.
And FLT is FLT, there is just "one", they just have separate "sublabels"
Yep, Slator and Count Zero, that´s so true.. hehe or even more stange if the FBI starts hunting all old ex. Fairlightérs ;-) I supplied them with some hot originals during the years. Guess I should go hide all my old FLT cracks/stuff then *LOL*
Dishy - keep the c64 alive - Dishy |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002 Posts: 588 |
Here some German IT News bits:
http://www.chip.de/news/c_news_11821995.html
house searches have been in 27 US states and the following countries: Belgium, Denmark, Germany, France, Great Britain, Israel, Netherlands, Sweden, Ungarn and Singapore and there has been more groups (warez) affected than only "Fairlight". |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Yep, Slator and Count Zero, that´s so true.. hehe or even more stange if the FBI starts hunting all old ex. Fairlightérs ;-) I supplied them with some hot originals during the years. Guess I should go hide all my old FLT cracks/stuff then *LOL*
Dishy - keep the c64 alive - Dishy
I for one am very happy that I didn't join Fairlight when Duke asked me a few years ago: it could have resulted in me being busted as well, and how the hell am I going to explain all those comics scans on my harddisk? :) |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002 Posts: 254 |
now it reached swedish news aswell. they mention, amongst other groups, fairlight. and i agree with CZ; just cause these ppl are not the ones active on the c64-scene it is still the same group with a common history (Strider from Malmö). it is not a taken name, a ripoff. it is still the ones that kills a commy for their mommy, although i'm not sure if that slogan is used by non-c64-fairlighters.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,467674,00.ht..
(in swedish) |
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Look here
Fuckin' police going around arresting pirates on behalf of the mafia software industry, that does concern us all, be it only for historical reasons.
You would have thought the industry'd have got it by now, i.e. selling games at lower prices so nobody would bother pirating it.
the opposite is true: 60+ euros or USD for one game!
Same goes for music records.
I thus remain totally unemphatic to the industry's whining.
Moreover, my old pirate's heart beats vehemently when I read these reports about Fairlight and others on the PC-scene being busted.
It looks about time to reinstall the ancient dutch group FAC - Federation Against Copyright, just for the name of it.
I just say one thing to the Business Software Alliance and other godforsaken l00sers of that kind: taunt us, and we'll put on the effort to make you relive times you aren't even aware of.
Times when software was pirated and made widely available the very same day it was shipped to the stores, or preferably earlier.
It's easy for law enforcement to fight mundane powers, but there's alot more between heaven and earth.
Do remember the haunting dragon, the fierce steed of the Founder King, the ever so long awaited...
We announced his return. We just might be willing to speed it up.
Goldfish [L]
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Quote: I for one am very happy that I didn't join Fairlight when Duke asked me a few years ago: it could have resulted in me being busted as well, and how the hell am I going to explain all those comics scans on my harddisk? :)
Judge
Your comment ("I for one am very happy that I didn't join Fairlight when Duke asked me a few years ago: it could have resulted in me being busted as well") is not worthy of the scene.
Neither is it to the inspiration to you handle (Joe Dredd doesn't budge in the face of adversity).
I know for sure you repent already.
When the drums of war resound, your resolve will be an exemplar to the faithful.
GDF
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Judge
Your comment ("I for one am very happy that I didn't join Fairlight when Duke asked me a few years ago: it could have resulted in me being busted as well") is not worthy of the scene.
Neither is it to the inspiration to you handle (Joe Dredd doesn't budge in the face of adversity).
I know for sure you repent already.
When the drums of war resound, your resolve will be an exemplar to the faithful.
GDF
Sorry. I will leave the scene now.
Either that, or I'll take your post as seriously as mine was meant: not at all.
Oh, and Goldfish: please don't be like some other ex-bbs guys and try acting all elitist here, ragging without reason .. this is not the place :) |
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blackdroid Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002 Posts: 84 |
wtf where is my wizard hat. |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
@Dark Judge:
You didn't realy think about my handle, did you?
Honestly, Goldfish wasn't ragging but far away from it. Maybe it's quite good for you and others to see another brick of the oldskool-scene posting in order to understand what it all was about at our time. |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
On the other hand ragging has always been infantile, so let's keep this adult and what we're here for: have a good time.
And if they hunt down old members, guess I better run and hide now *LOL* |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: @Dark Judge:
You didn't realy think about my handle, did you?
Honestly, Goldfish wasn't ragging but far away from it. Maybe it's quite good for you and others to see another brick of the oldskool-scene posting in order to understand what it all was about at our time.
@Radar, I wasn't thinking about anybody in particular, although you do meet the requirements, let's leave it at that.
I know Goldfish wasn't ragging per see, but his writing style (using those o.t.t. sentences) is a sign of things to come.
And please stop that 'at our time' bullshit, I've been around for as long as you have, only I didn't leave, that's the difference. Doesn't make me better than you but it certainly doesn't make me worse either.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: On the other hand ragging has always been infantile, so let's keep this adult and what we're here for: have a good time.
And if they hunt down old members, guess I better run and hide now *LOL*
That's exactly what I mean. The fact that 'ragging' was a big part of the bbs scene all those years ago doesn't mean that it should be brought back. Not even to teach 'those newbies what it's all about'. It's 2004, let it go. |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
The discussions that caused the ragging were almost always because of release arguments - not always, but almost. Which is the reason why it was almost always crackers ragging. I cannot ever recall seing any demogroups ragging, but ofcourse there may be exceptions.. |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: @Radar, I wasn't thinking about anybody in particular, although you do meet the requirements, let's leave it at that.
I know Goldfish wasn't ragging per see, but his writing style (using those o.t.t. sentences) is a sign of things to come.
And please stop that 'at our time' bullshit, I've been around for as long as you have, only I didn't leave, that's the difference. Doesn't make me better than you but it certainly doesn't make me worse either.
Maybe you have been around at the same time when I was active (like from 84 to 93), even when I don't remember your handle concerning any important case, but that still doesn't mean that certain people are worth opening their mouth in regards to lyrics they don't know about and never understood in the past. Pulling others into their personal conflicts, built by misunderstandings of their own, ain't the good way.
That's the point where I actually don't meet any requirements you wrote about - as we both were active at different levels within the scene.
NOW let's leave it at that. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002 Posts: 5086 |
this was also in the hungarian news, at a university several teachers got busted, and some computers were seized... but it was just a little newsflash. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Maybe you have been around at the same time when I was active (like from 84 to 93), even when I don't remember your handle concerning any important case, but that still doesn't mean that certain people are worth opening their mouth in regards to lyrics they don't know about and never understood in the past. Pulling others into their personal conflicts, built by misunderstandings of their own, ain't the good way.
That's the point where I actually don't meet any requirements you wrote about - as we both were active at different levels within the scene.
NOW let's leave it at that.
I actually typed a lengthy response but I know it's only going to generate more misunderstandings and boasting, and it's really not worth wasting my (our) time and energy on.
But please realize this: people don't give a flying fuck about what we did or who we were on the c64, not even here. Well, they do, but only as statistics in the database.
I know 'finding' csdb can give an ex-scener quite a power boost, making him feel he's on top of the world again, 'telling all those newbies what it's really about' but it just doesn't work that way.
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002 Posts: 241 |
TDJ@: if "people don't give a flying fuck about what we did or who we were on the c64, not even here."
Then how comes, you will only got to the party in Denmark, if some of the old Danish elite sceners would join the party.(Like Trap/Bonzai and Metal/Bonzai, as you wrote.)
I do know what you mean, but actually I would like to see many og the old sceners in here, so I give a "flying fuck", about what they did back then. Actually, I got rather happy, when a PM from Bacchus(concerning old scener Tiger/NATO/Crest) and Goldfish etc. jumped up two days ago. I´m honoured to see, that old and skilled sceners - which I respected very much back then - still care a little about the c64 - even today;-)
Best regards,
Dishy
Dishy - keep the c64 alive - Dishy |
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Sasq
Registered: Apr 2004 Posts: 156 |
Quote: Look here
Fuckin' police going around arresting pirates on behalf of the mafia software industry, that does concern us all, be it only for historical reasons.
You would have thought the industry'd have got it by now, i.e. selling games at lower prices so nobody would bother pirating it.
the opposite is true: 60+ euros or USD for one game!
Same goes for music records.
I thus remain totally unemphatic to the industry's whining.
Moreover, my old pirate's heart beats vehemently when I read these reports about Fairlight and others on the PC-scene being busted.
It looks about time to reinstall the ancient dutch group FAC - Federation Against Copyright, just for the name of it.
I just say one thing to the Business Software Alliance and other godforsaken l00sers of that kind: taunt us, and we'll put on the effort to make you relive times you aren't even aware of.
Times when software was pirated and made widely available the very same day it was shipped to the stores, or preferably earlier.
It's easy for law enforcement to fight mundane powers, but there's alot more between heaven and earth.
Do remember the haunting dragon, the fierce steed of the Founder King, the ever so long awaited...
We announced his return. We just might be willing to speed it up.
Goldfish [L]
Relive what times? Games are pirated the same way as ever - at the very latest when they hit retailers, often from reviewers or even directly from the publisher or development Studio. And game prices hasn't gone up as much as the cost of making a game. We're talking 2 years development time involving 100+ people.
This is a natural effect of Capitalism. So blame the system and not the effects of it.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ@: if "people don't give a flying fuck about what we did or who we were on the c64, not even here."
Then how comes, you will only got to the party in Denmark, if some of the old Danish elite sceners would join the party.(Like Trap/Bonzai and Metal/Bonzai, as you wrote.)
I do know what you mean, but actually I would like to see many og the old sceners in here, so I give a "flying fuck", about what they did back then. Actually, I got rather happy, when a PM from Bacchus(concerning old scener Tiger/NATO/Crest) and Goldfish etc. jumped up two days ago. I´m honoured to see, that old and skilled sceners - which I respected very much back then - still care a little about the c64 - even today;-)
Best regards,
Dishy
Dishy - keep the c64 alive - Dishy
With people I meant ofcourse the 'newbies'. Most of them are not impressed by what 'we' did in the past, we're just dinosaurs to them. Ofcourse it's different for you & me, as those old sceners where part of the same scene we were.
But let's be honest: most ex-sceners don't give that same flying fuck about what the current sceners do or are.
Every party I've been to the last years proves it: there's a huge difference between 'them' and 'us'. In fact, it's almost like 2 different scenes.
I know it's not always like that, there are exceptions to this rule, but it's really arrogant for somebody who has left the c64 behind 10 years ago to come back and expect to be in the same position he once was, which happened quite a few times on csdb already. Just think of the Secret Man fiasco, which could have been prevented if people just would have let go of their ego. |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
Uhm, TDJ, I have nothing against you, want to make that absolute clear right now - BUT, to me it sounds as though you're contradicting yourself, but maybe I catch what you're saying wrongfully:
You point out that it is arrogant to come back after ten years thinking you can still act like a holy god, and in this I agree - but as the same time it seems you're quite annoyed to the fact that people doesn't remember you nor care for the things you did back then?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not two sides of the same story? |
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CyberBrain Administrator
Posts: 392 |
Without saying too much, i can say TDJ is right. SOME of the 'old sceners' arrogant "we know it all, you know nothing"-attitude is ofcause wrong, and will not gain them any respect. (same argument the other way around, but i don't remember having seen any of that)
EDIT: But other than that i think old sceners are cool. I don't want to be misunderstood :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Uhm, TDJ, I have nothing against you, want to make that absolute clear right now - BUT, to me it sounds as though you're contradicting yourself, but maybe I catch what you're saying wrongfully:
You point out that it is arrogant to come back after ten years thinking you can still act like a holy god, and in this I agree - but as the same time it seems you're quite annoyed to the fact that people doesn't remember you nor care for the things you did back then?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not two sides of the same story?
Where does it look like I'm annoyed that people don't remember me? I've got bigger problems in my life than caring if Radar or other people I've never dealt with know who I am. True, I wouldn't like it if somebody I used to swap with wouldn't remember me, but so far that has never been the case.
Also there's a difference between coming back & being dissapointed that people don't remember you and coming back & acting like you're the second coming of Christ.
You know, the true legends are always modest. On TP4 I met Maduplec, who was genuinely surprised I could name all his demos. And Crossbow once told me he didn't consider himself worthy to be in a panel deciding on best demos ever. Quite a difference from proclaiming yourself one of the most famous sceners ever, right? |
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Platoon Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004 Posts: 40 |
well im one of the "few" that apparently gives a flying fuck about bouth old sceeners and new sceeners i think its quite incredible what the new sceeners can do and still does with the old toaster, that i didnt dare dream about in the "old dayz".
but i still hope that some old friends from the "old dayz"
some day pop up on the users online list, coz i miss a great # of em and would like to know what became of em...
"old dayz" wasnt just about programming and coolness vs lameness it also had alot to do with freindship so now lets all kiss and make up :)
PEACE ! |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
TDJ - I understood your point and I agree, only wanted to point out the contradiction in itself ;-) Nothing more..
I must say though - being in a cracking group and in a group group is a huge difference when you visit the boards. If you're in a crackergroup fighting over releases you're used to getting flamed every single day, and it does add a bit of paranoia to you *LOL* - where as in the demo scene there isn't the same kind of competition - there is competition, sure, but always cases that are hell of a lot easier to solve than the usual "who was first with this game" disputes on the boards..
Not saying the paranoia is right, but it's there nevertheless.. |
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002 Posts: 241 |
Quote: TDJ - I understood your point and I agree, only wanted to point out the contradiction in itself ;-) Nothing more..
I must say though - being in a cracking group and in a group group is a huge difference when you visit the boards. If you're in a crackergroup fighting over releases you're used to getting flamed every single day, and it does add a bit of paranoia to you *LOL* - where as in the demo scene there isn't the same kind of competition - there is competition, sure, but always cases that are hell of a lot easier to solve than the usual "who was first with this game" disputes on the boards..
Not saying the paranoia is right, but it's there nevertheless..
Think Crossfire is right on that one. There is a very huge difference between the legal and the illegal scene. Especially if you compare to the elite crackingscene, where AT&T cards, 1.st-releases and calling to the states is a part of your scene-life. So, like there is a huge difference between the demo VS cracking scene, there is/were also a huge difference between being in an elite crackinggroup and a "normal" crackinggroup. Two different scenes!!! Read the elite mags, and only the elite are mentioned - like there were even no other scenes!
I startede up in the demo-scene in 1990, and I´ve tryed both the demo- and the cracking business. In my opinion the cracking-scene is much more tough and wild, and there´s much more action (and fun:) all the time. Every week/day new originals are to be obtained and provided to the crackers in a hurry, when AT&T-cards are available boards has to be called, cracks always had to be spreaded, phonecalls, phonecalls and yet again phonecalls to be sure everything is OK etc. etc. etc.. I think the competition was more fun in the crackingscene, and I also think wars were much more a part of that scene, than in the demoscene.
Dishy - keep the c64 alive - Dishy |
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Judge, you obviously feel offended by my rhetorical and admonishing style of writing.
I'll repeat my 2 posts plainly:
"Damn, these fuckin'software companies deserve that everyone put tons of effort in pirating games on PC and every other platform that could hurt'em, and made these pirated copies wildly available to the public at large".
&
"Come on, Judge, don't let these police motha's impress you with their raids".
But of course, that wouldn't have been me.
And I gotto be me.
GDF [L]
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Secondly
I shall not be accused of heightening my words because of any merits from the past.
I have always spoken and written in this condescending manner, and justly so.
Don't see why I should change that now.
And finally, Crossfire.
Please forgive my religious correctness but:
How could a Legender ever be rightly accused of pretending to be a god?
Such sacrilege would go against the essence of our endeavour past and present.
GDF [L] (merely in service of divinity)
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
@Goldfish, I'm not offended (it takes a lot more than that, believe me), I just hope(d) that your writing style isn't a way of putting down others, pretending you are worth so much more just because you once were in Legend. But if this is your normal style, so be it, I kinda like it :)
Secondly, I don't care about software being cracked: I only bought one original game in my life, and I still feel sorry about it. I download all my Xbox games, movies, music, even comics. Does it look like I'm against pirating? And I'm not impressed by that raid either. My 'glad I did not join Fairlight' statement was a joke. A bad one, I agree, but a joke nonetheless.
@Crossfire: I still think I didn't contradict myself but whatever :) I've never been part of a real cracking group (okay, both WWE & S451 cracked games but I didn't have anything to do with that) but the demoscene also had its fair share of competition and even wars. Not as heavy as the cracking scene, sure, but don't underestimate the power of a simple scrolltext. I myself have been in quite a few 'disagreements', esp. in the early 90's when Focus started making a name for itself and people didn't like our (and esp. my) boasting about it. People even threatened to beat me up at the Silicon summer 1991 party (ofcourse nothing happened). Aah, good times .. :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Also, I'd like to make one thing a bit more clear: it's not that I think new sceners don't care about old sceners at all, it's just that they don't care about MOST old sceners. Sure, the real legends will always get respect but it's not a given for just anybody who was around in the late 80's. And it shouldn't be. There were thousands of us for God's sake.
And vice-versa ofcourse: just because somebody is using the c64 nowadays shouldn't automatically get him respect from the ex-sceners. Ofcourse there are a few very talented guys who really have taken this to the next level but most sceners nowadays would have meant zilch back in the late 80's. Take it from somebody who was around then, and is around now :)
Finally one more thing: just because there was a huge competition in the cracking scene 15 years ago doesn't mean that attitude should be expressed here, IMHO. |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
@Dark Judge:
It's quite nice to see you struggling and fighting for your point of view, BUT NewSkoolers DO care about the people from the old times. Either in the way of showing their respect or just in another way where they recognize and keep on coding their demos-wares. I already tried to explain for just a couple of times, that we had a totally other scene which we were part of, but for such a OldSkooler like you (well, you said you were around when I was around)you should know that already.
Secondly, your bragging about Goldfish and his way of conversation truely proves your lack of knowledge about old sceners. Pitty you, that you can't stand it...
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: @Dark Judge:
It's quite nice to see you struggling and fighting for your point of view, BUT NewSkoolers DO care about the people from the old times. Either in the way of showing their respect or just in another way where they recognize and keep on coding their demos-wares. I already tried to explain for just a couple of times, that we had a totally other scene which we were part of, but for such a OldSkooler like you (well, you said you were around when I was around)you should know that already.
Secondly, your bragging about Goldfish and his way of conversation truely proves your lack of knowledge about old sceners. Pitty you, that you can't stand it...
Okay mr. Radar, seeing that you just 'returned' a few months ago and already know how the current scene works, unlike me who has been an active part of it, I guess you *must* be right. The newskoolers desperately need somebody like you to show them "how it should be done". They need somebody like to you berate people, driving them to deleting data on csdb, just because you will not "bow to terrorism". Because that's the way it was done 15 years ago goddamnit!
And by the way, it's too bad that you don't seem to believe I was active all those years ago. If there only was some kind of database where information about my productions was stored which could prove it ..
As for your last sentence: I once again have no clue what you mean. Must be my lack of understanding the English language, right?
Oh, and pity has just one t. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002 Posts: 1570 |
Quote: @Dark Judge:
It's quite nice to see you struggling and fighting for your point of view, BUT NewSkoolers DO care about the people from the old times. Either in the way of showing their respect or just in another way where they recognize and keep on coding their demos-wares. I already tried to explain for just a couple of times, that we had a totally other scene which we were part of, but for such a OldSkooler like you (well, you said you were around when I was around)you should know that already.
Secondly, your bragging about Goldfish and his way of conversation truely proves your lack of knowledge about old sceners. Pitty you, that you can't stand it...
Oh dear! Oh dear!
Another topic gone haywire due to misinterpretations!
People, please *READ* what TDJ has to tell before you start slagging on him!
And trust me, TDJ has knowledge about old sceners :)
R.
(DAIM!) |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Why should I re-read over and over again?
Dark Judge interprets any posts in the way he wants to. Instead of riding on typos he should simply accept people from the old scene instead if telling that he knows all about them and that 'he was part of it'. I simply don't give a fuck about it, but also he should calm down when it comes to other peoples opinion. Also mentioning Secret Man in this case ain't no good, as that had a complete different base when the threat started at that time. Nobody on here acts like that, as we are grown up. And that's what he calls 'terrorism'? Yeah, right... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Why should I re-read over and over again?
Dark Judge interprets any posts in the way he wants to. Instead of riding on typos he should simply accept people from the old scene instead if telling that he knows all about them and that 'he was part of it'. I simply don't give a fuck about it, but also he should calm down when it comes to other peoples opinion. Also mentioning Secret Man in this case ain't no good, as that had a complete different base when the threat started at that time. Nobody on here acts like that, as we are grown up. And that's what he calls 'terrorism'? Yeah, right...
So on one hand you don't give a fuck about my opinions, but I should care about yours? The great Snoopy Roy Radar? Right ..
And the term 'terrorism' was used in another thread. For the record: I don't think that SM's actions were terrorism (hence the quotes in my previous post), but the way some people (you included) reacted to it almost seemed like it was.
As for the typos: if it only was just that. But you have proven several times that you're just not good in English, like the time you attacked CreaMD because he used the term "rich past" in a correct way and you simply didn't understand it. So how do you expect other people to have a normal discussion with you if you cant even express yourself correctly? |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
Well, this doesn't seem to me at all as being "slacking" (the word is called "ragging" but nevermind..), this is just a heated discussion about points of view - or correct me if I'm wrong..
I mean, nobody said anything about anyones mother yet, so.. *LOL* |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Well, this doesn't seem to me at all as being "slacking" (the word is called "ragging" but nevermind..), this is just a heated discussion about points of view - or correct me if I'm wrong..
I mean, nobody said anything about anyones mother yet, so.. *LOL*
There's nothing wrong with (heated) discussions, in fact they are necessary to liven up this board. Unfortunately it mostly ends with people misunderstanding eachother, sometimes deliberately.
In fact I think Radar & me agree on one thing: ofcourse there is respect from the new sceners for what 'we' did in general, but I don't think that automatically means they respect *all* old sceners. And why should they? I remember a lot of idiots hanging around in the 80's, and while they also had their function it certainly doesn't make them better than today's sceners. |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: There's nothing wrong with (heated) discussions, in fact they are necessary to liven up this board. Unfortunately it mostly ends with people misunderstanding eachother, sometimes deliberately.
In fact I think Radar & me agree on one thing: ofcourse there is respect from the new sceners for what 'we' did in general, but I don't think that automatically means they respect *all* old sceners. And why should they? I remember a lot of idiots hanging around in the 80's, and while they also had their function it certainly doesn't make them better than today's sceners.
A 'heated' discussion is by far not a good base for brave conversations, but what do I know... Like Dark Judge already said, my english is not good and I don't know anything about new and old scene, neither do I understand any poems nor lyrics nor text written on here...
Dude, what kind of drugs do you shove up your ass every morning?
You are just another proof for a typical lamer from old days who never had his satisfaction before the old scene ended and new people took the place for yet another generation. Instead of still telling me that you are from 'old days' (what I actually don't know, as you never crossed my ways then), you should face the facts by understanding the changes which appeared during the last 10 years aswell as the scene we had in the early 80s. That point has nothing to do with being arrogant or proud, it's a simple fact which gets reported by those old sceners.
On the other hand, it's nice to see that the NewSkoolers show their respect for old sceners, same comes from the OldSkoolers who see that new people still keep up the spirit and continue the way. But you actually stated that you could care less about certain people from the past, so why do you declare disharmony when I say, that I could care less about you? I for my person face the facts with a name, you don't...
When Goldfish did his first posts, you automatically felt attacked. Honestly, why in hell don't you simply shut up and stop posting at all when you don't even know the people. And for somebody like you, from the 'old days', it's quite weird that you don't even remember him. I for my person remember a lot of stuff where he and I were involved and I can judge him for being a fair and competent person all the time. The scene was different then... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Okay, lets do this by the numbers (literally):
1.I never claimed you dont know anything about the old scene. In fact, I dont doubt you do.
2.I do think you know little about the new scene. Simply because I think youve been back for too short a time. But I might be wrong ofcourse.
3.I never claimed you dont understand poems or lyrics. If you think I did, please prove it.
4.I do think you misunderstand a lot of whats written here yes. Like the rich past line, and a lot of my posts. Your claim that I was bragging about Goldfish is a proof of this. Either that, or you dont know what bragging is.
5.A typical lamer .. hmm .. maybe I was, especially to people like you. I could ofcourse give a huge list of things I accomplished, but I dont want this to become some kind of bragging match, those days are behind me .. I know my place in history: Im not a great coder, but for some reason I think more people remember me than you. Snoopy.
6.I understand the changes that happened. I saw them happening. I was there. Where were you? And iIf you understand those changes so well, then why do you still act like its 1989?
7.I didnt say I could care less about certain people from the past, I said most newbies dont. I for one love it when people from the past wind up here, because it reminds me of the golden days.
8.Ok, Im going to ask. WTF is declaring disharmony supposed to mean?
9.I for my person face the facts with a name, you dont. Please give examples, because to me something like but that still doesn't mean that certain people are worth opening their mouth in regards to lyrics they don't know about and never understood in the past. Pulling others into their personal conflicts, built by misunderstandings of their own, ain't the good way proves otherwise. Thats not facts, thats as vague as it can get.
10.I didnt feel attacked by Goldfish, I just pointed out that he shouldnt take my post seriously. And ofcourse I remember Goldfish. Hell, I even remember Pizza of Legend. And I never claimed hes not fair and competent, I just expressed my concern about him becoming another ex-superstar (which I feel he is, unlike you) acting all arrogant. After his reply Im not concerned anymore, its that simple. You know why? Because he made a clear point. You should learn from him. |
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G-Fellow Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004 Posts: 103 |
Hi all! :)
Iam also from the old days (88-91) My old handle was Short Circuit/FTS2009 and iam shure that nobody know me(us?), coz we was not very famous at that time.
What i want to say is that i like to see oldsceners in here or in the IRC.net at #C-64 to talk with them, coz i dont had the chance to do it in the 80´s. I respect them and i want to be respectet from them also for what i do ( to support the scene )!
And yes the 80´s scene was very different from the scene nowdays, it was simply harder, more wars, many more sceners and it was not so easy to get famous becoz of so many sceners!
I would like to see that more ex sceners join the scene nowdays and support us, like i do on January 2004 :)
Greets,
G-Fellow/Civitas
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Nightlord Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 131 |
well i am for sure a new scener. I was in local scene back in 96 but did nothing serious and left. then i stepped in international scene only a year ago in 2003.
i don't know anybody from the past. i respect that old cracking scene was different etc. so i don't/can't/won't compare it to todays demo scene. as much as i respect old sceners (especially crackers... hell they can even understand other people's code) i don't find it interesting at all to read old crackers talking/arguing/fighting about their interpretations of the scene/elite/good-old-days.
and as much as i respect that past, i can't help feeling like "hey why do these guys spend so much time on the boards of a scene in which they produce nothing at the moment."
i don't expect to get respect from them just because i am still coding on this machine. I am coding demos because it is fun:) |
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Aaah, heated debate... Good!
I must go with Radar on this one.
Admonishing Judge for the remark he now rightly distances himself from, I ended my post saying something to the effect of
When the drums of war resound, your resolve will be an exemplar to the faithful.
Actually, that is exactly what I must have written.
Thus in a way I expressed my belief that his ephemeral laxity would come to an end soon.
You see how cautious and mild mannered I entered this forum?
A rare display, I must add.
Definitely not to be mistaken for an attack...
GDF [L]
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Aaah, heated debate... Good!
I must go with Radar on this one.
Admonishing Judge for the remark he now rightly distances himself from, I ended my post saying something to the effect of
When the drums of war resound, your resolve will be an exemplar to the faithful.
Actually, that is exactly what I must have written.
Thus in a way I expressed my belief that his ephemeral laxity would come to an end soon.
You see how cautious and mild mannered I entered this forum?
A rare display, I must add.
Definitely not to be mistaken for an attack...
GDF [L]
Ephemeral laxity .. you crack me up, really you do :)
And oh, hate to rain on your parade, but I haven't distanced myself from anything. If you honestly thought my first post wasn't a joke, you're pretty dense, no matter how good your English is ;) |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: Ephemeral laxity .. you crack me up, really you do :)
And oh, hate to rain on your parade, but I haven't distanced myself from anything. If you honestly thought my first post wasn't a joke, you're pretty dense, no matter how good your English is ;)
Your last posting shows it once again: You simply DON'T WANT to get the point of this debate. Instead of just facing and understanding the reasons why we lead this talking on here, you come up with some 'low-level-lamer-crap' like 'Your english is not good', 'i also know people from the past', 'i am from the old days'... blahblahblah. You even tried to pull CreamD into this again - just to have atleast somebody at your side to straighten up your back.
By now it looks like you still wish to be part of a scene where you have never been part of (atleast not at the point where we have been). Jealousy is your slogan while reading and writing in this threat. And that's it!
You still code on C64 nowadays? Fine, it's nice to see people who continue the spirit of old days, even in another way, but that's caused by the time which has changed. I accept and respect that. When I look at your specific case: Bad luck that you never had any fame in the time when the scene was flooded with people you had to compete with. I don't tell you why - you know it...
Stop barking like a creepy dog begging for bones and start to behave like a man.
[x] Simply ravishing |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Your last posting shows it once again: You simply DON'T WANT to get the point of this debate. Instead of just facing and understanding the reasons why we lead this talking on here, you come up with some 'low-level-lamer-crap' like 'Your english is not good', 'i also know people from the past', 'i am from the old days'... blahblahblah. You even tried to pull CreamD into this again - just to have atleast somebody at your side to straighten up your back.
By now it looks like you still wish to be part of a scene where you have never been part of (atleast not at the point where we have been). Jealousy is your slogan while reading and writing in this threat. And that's it!
You still code on C64 nowadays? Fine, it's nice to see people who continue the spirit of old days, even in another way, but that's caused by the time which has changed. I accept and respect that. When I look at your specific case: Bad luck that you never had any fame in the time when the scene was flooded with people you had to compete with. I don't tell you why - you know it...
Stop barking like a creepy dog begging for bones and start to behave like a man.
[x] Simply ravishing
There you go again, replying on a post that was not meant for you, instead of replying the one that was. Maybe because you know you're just talking bullshit, saying the same thing over and over without proving your point?
And Snoopy: just because you don't remember me doesn't mean I didn't have 'any fame' back in the 80's. And just because I remember you doesn't mean that you did.
You were in Weird Science right? So you must remember NOP (later Cycleburner). Did you know that he did only one coopdemo ever in his c64 career? And guess with whom?
I'll give you a hint: it was the same guy who was #1 in the Horizon greetingslist for a long time back in the late 80's. A group he also did a coopdemo with by the way.
Not bad for a lamer, huh? |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: There you go again, replying on a post that was not meant for you, instead of replying the one that was. Maybe because you know you're just talking bullshit, saying the same thing over and over without proving your point?
And Snoopy: just because you don't remember me doesn't mean I didn't have 'any fame' back in the 80's. And just because I remember you doesn't mean that you did.
You were in Weird Science right? So you must remember NOP (later Cycleburner). Did you know that he did only one coopdemo ever in his c64 career? And guess with whom?
I'll give you a hint: it was the same guy who was #1 in the Horizon greetingslist for a long time back in the late 80's. A group he also did a coopdemo with by the way.
Not bad for a lamer, huh?
Wow, I'm soooooo impressed now. I guess that nobody on here has such a great knowledge about Even and his coding history but only Cycleburner himself.
W.A.M./Facade (just to make sure, that also your old handles get known, as you just started to list mine): What is so damn special on a coopdemo with Cycleburner? Besides that YOU couldn't reach his coding-abilities? I made a coopdemo with Blackmail once, so what? Nothing special! Calm down - lower your bloodpressure - try to lose your virginity - finally get a real life...
Once again you try to prove your 'career' and still I don't give a fuck about those lousy tries. Face it: Instead of opening your mouth about things you don't know about, you'd better be by staying at the roof, watching the show, and praying to the rulers in order to get their open ears for those beggings of yours for mercy and grace.
You won't be accepted by anybody before you don't respect others and stick with the facts - simple and clear enough? Maybe we should write it down in dutch, in order to make sure that you finally understand it. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Wow, I'm soooooo impressed now. I guess that nobody on here has such a great knowledge about Even and his coding history but only Cycleburner himself.
W.A.M./Facade (just to make sure, that also your old handles get known, as you just started to list mine): What is so damn special on a coopdemo with Cycleburner? Besides that YOU couldn't reach his coding-abilities? I made a coopdemo with Blackmail once, so what? Nothing special! Calm down - lower your bloodpressure - try to lose your virginity - finally get a real life...
Once again you try to prove your 'career' and still I don't give a fuck about those lousy tries. Face it: Instead of opening your mouth about things you don't know about, you'd better be by staying at the roof, watching the show, and praying to the rulers in order to get their open ears for those beggings of yours for mercy and grace.
You won't be accepted by anybody before you don't respect others and stick with the facts - simple and clear enough? Maybe we should write it down in dutch, in order to make sure that you finally understand it.
Hehe. You are just so fucking predictable. All throughout this thread I refrained from listing anything I did, because I'm not interested in a bragging match. And all you did was calling me a nobody who never accomplished anything. So just as soon as I tell you one simple fact to prove you're wrong, you fall back on the "that doesn't mean anything" tip.
If I really would want to prove my 'career', believe me, I could. But why? There are plenty of people who already know about it, and no matter what I'll say or do, you'll refuse to admit you are wrong. So I won't waste my energy on you any longer. You can claim that as a "victory" if you want. But we both, as well as all the others here, know better.
And by the way, yes, maybe you should have tried it in Dutch. Can't be worse than your English :) |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: Hehe. You are just so fucking predictable. All throughout this thread I refrained from listing anything I did, because I'm not interested in a bragging match. And all you did was calling me a nobody who never accomplished anything. So just as soon as I tell you one simple fact to prove you're wrong, you fall back on the "that doesn't mean anything" tip.
If I really would want to prove my 'career', believe me, I could. But why? There are plenty of people who already know about it, and no matter what I'll say or do, you'll refuse to admit you are wrong. So I won't waste my energy on you any longer. You can claim that as a "victory" if you want. But we both, as well as all the others here, know better.
And by the way, yes, maybe you should have tried it in Dutch. Can't be worse than your English :)
Victory? A victory can be celebrated when a fight took place - you were just too far away from even entering a fight!
YOU are still trying to tell me that MY english is bad? Hm, lemme see:
- "...you'll refuse to admit you are wrong..." ???
- "...bragging match..." ??? (Didn't you mention that you don't know the meaning of that word?)
- "...would want to..." ???
Yup, you're the one and only... loser!
But it's okay for me, I'll gladly push you to the other fools who have tried their luck before - right into the darkness of the reapers paradise! Good bye!
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 3053 |
The history repeats... |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: The history repeats...
Actually, I agree. But even we get along with eachother now ;-) |
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CyberBrain Administrator
Posts: 392 |
@Radar: I think you may be misinterpreting TDJ's posts a bit. TDJ didn't say that Goldfishs english wasn't good, for example. In fact he said it was good...
You are saying that TDJ was not in the old scene, because he was not elite and because he weren't famous in the cracking scene..?
(tho, i would think what he wrote indicates that he wasn't just another totally unknown lamer in the old scene - and therefore a part of it.. But maybe your definition is different?)
It think it would be interesting (i mean that) to hear your oppinion, but without all the random personal attacks. ;)
(hope you won't start flaming me now - i'm just interested in hearing precisely what you're trying to say, nothing more. Maybe you have an interesting view on the scene) |
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: @Radar: I think you may be misinterpreting TDJ's posts a bit. TDJ didn't say that Goldfishs english wasn't good, for example. In fact he said it was good...
You are saying that TDJ was not in the old scene, because he was not elite and because he weren't famous in the cracking scene..?
(tho, i would think what he wrote indicates that he wasn't just another totally unknown lamer in the old scene - and therefore a part of it.. But maybe your definition is different?)
It think it would be interesting (i mean that) to hear your oppinion, but without all the random personal attacks. ;)
(hope you won't start flaming me now - i'm just interested in hearing precisely what you're trying to say, nothing more. Maybe you have an interesting view on the scene)
Somehow you forgot to mention both sides now.
Right from the beginning I wrote that I can't remember him from the old days concerning my activities in the scene and that he never crossed my way at all. That's a fact! Actually, that doesn't mean that he wasn't around in another part of the scene - what I never refused. During the heat on this debatte, it turned to other views from both sides maybe.
Then to be honest: He felt somehow 'confused' about GDF's postings at first sight and couldn't interprete the meaning of it and was upset afterwards. GDF's english is quite good and he uses that language in a proper way but not in school-english. As TDJ never saw him nor me 'in action' back then, it's maybe quite confusing for him, but that's the way life goes.
And hey! I didn't start to insult! There are some nice poems to quote now, but I personally don't see a reason to keep on going into this.
BUT: Another point of this threat could be, that maybe (and just maybe) new people in the scene have a look at what is/was going on between people from the past. Even in better and harder ways like this, but still... Don't misunderstand me now, but I kept this post loyal to both sides and don't want to offend you in any way! |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Somehow you forgot to mention both sides now.
Right from the beginning I wrote that I can't remember him from the old days concerning my activities in the scene and that he never crossed my way at all. That's a fact! Actually, that doesn't mean that he wasn't around in another part of the scene - what I never refused. During the heat on this debatte, it turned to other views from both sides maybe.
Then to be honest: He felt somehow 'confused' about GDF's postings at first sight and couldn't interprete the meaning of it and was upset afterwards. GDF's english is quite good and he uses that language in a proper way but not in school-english. As TDJ never saw him nor me 'in action' back then, it's maybe quite confusing for him, but that's the way life goes.
And hey! I didn't start to insult! There are some nice poems to quote now, but I personally don't see a reason to keep on going into this.
BUT: Another point of this threat could be, that maybe (and just maybe) new people in the scene have a look at what is/was going on between people from the past. Even in better and harder ways like this, but still... Don't misunderstand me now, but I kept this post loyal to both sides and don't want to offend you in any way!
Don't worry, I'm not going to start again, I guess we'll leave the Radar vs TDJ situation as it is :)
As for the Goldfish situation, I think it's just a matter of misunderstanding eachother, Goldfish misunderstood me and I misunderstood him, but I feel that has been handled as well. |
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
Quote: There you go again, replying on a post that was not meant for you, instead of replying the one that was. Maybe because you know you're just talking bullshit, saying the same thing over and over without proving your point?
And Snoopy: just because you don't remember me doesn't mean I didn't have 'any fame' back in the 80's. And just because I remember you doesn't mean that you did.
You were in Weird Science right? So you must remember NOP (later Cycleburner). Did you know that he did only one coopdemo ever in his c64 career? And guess with whom?
I'll give you a hint: it was the same guy who was #1 in the Horizon greetingslist for a long time back in the late 80's. A group he also did a coopdemo with by the way.
Not bad for a lamer, huh?
Look here, I feel obliged to comment on this one.
Judge, you should fancy a career in lawyerism, because at first glance it looked as if YOU were the one mentioned first in the HORIZON greeting list.
That would have been quite impressive, I guess.
Basicly because I myself can connect the name HORIZON to a famous demo group (and this despite my failing memory... where did the wine in that "rosé" bottle go???).
But apparently you were talking about some coder whom you did a demo together with...
So basicly, back in the days, you were famous by proxy.
Kinda shady record don't you think?
GDF [L]
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goldfish Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003 Posts: 18 |
On the subject of good or bad English
Despite my ailing memory...
I remember the sysop of THE ADDICTION (his handle slips it, used to be the cracker of the archrivals to ESI) once wanted to correct me on what he considered to be a repeating spelling mistake of mine...
He explained to me the word loser was with only one o, saying something to the effect that even if we were comfortable and loose, we weren't losers (this dude was mega elite I tell you).
I had to reply I had never written "looser" to call the lame names, but consistently labeled them l00sers, stressing the double zeroes they truly were.
GDF [L]
"Even I slip, but I don't slip that often" (Ice-T)
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001 Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Look here, I feel obliged to comment on this one.
Judge, you should fancy a career in lawyerism, because at first glance it looked as if YOU were the one mentioned first in the HORIZON greeting list.
That would have been quite impressive, I guess.
Basicly because I myself can connect the name HORIZON to a famous demo group (and this despite my failing memory... where did the wine in that "rosé" bottle go???).
But apparently you were talking about some coder whom you did a demo together with...
So basicly, back in the days, you were famous by proxy.
Kinda shady record don't you think?
GDF [L]
No, I was talking about the demogroup Horizon. You can check several of their demos for proof. The guy I did the demo with was Bagder (Daniel), the name of the demo is Xplosion.
Xplosion!
Also, I don't think I was 'famous' just because I was #1 in their greetingslist, if I was 'famous' (a very relative term when it comes to somebody in the scene) it was because of the many demos I did for WWE and later for founding Focus and getting that group to the top (together with my very talented team-members, ofcourse). But it has never been about 'fame' for me, I only mentioned those facts above as a reply to Radar's statement that I didn't account for anything back then. Which in his eyes I still may not do, but I'm kinda proud of my accomplishments.
And just for the record, the demo I did with Cycleburner: Xcellence
Those demos weren't done because I was such an excellent coder but because I got along real well with both these guys. Finally met them in real life on the Horizon Easter 1990 party where I even formed a new label with Cycleburner (Xcellence Software Designs). Not that we ever released anything but still :) |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
Oh, yeah... I remember that co-op demo... Damn, a screenshot can really help kickstart a memory, haha.. Referring here to the WS+WWE demo.. |
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Cmr Account closed
Registered: Jun 2003 Posts: 23 |
Quote: Victory? A victory can be celebrated when a fight took place - you were just too far away from even entering a fight!
YOU are still trying to tell me that MY english is bad? Hm, lemme see:
- "...you'll refuse to admit you are wrong..." ???
- "...bragging match..." ??? (Didn't you mention that you don't know the meaning of that word?)
- "...would want to..." ???
Yup, you're the one and only... loser!
But it's okay for me, I'll gladly push you to the other fools who have tried their luck before - right into the darkness of the reapers paradise! Good bye!
Still the same Roy as I remember...
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: Still the same Roy as I remember...
Ain't that nice? |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002 Posts: |
well, just crackers are the real heroes.
the rest are just lousy unknown lamers without any modems or bbs account that never did something else than just laming around doing stupid demos/musics whatever...
yeah that must be it...
Somehow I have the strange feeling that ignorant or arrogant ppl might have missed some important parts of history....
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Radar Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003 Posts: 259 |
Quote: well, just crackers are the real heroes.
the rest are just lousy unknown lamers without any modems or bbs account that never did something else than just laming around doing stupid demos/musics whatever...
yeah that must be it...
Somehow I have the strange feeling that ignorant or arrogant ppl might have missed some important parts of history....
But that's actually not the point which we tried to quote out of this conversation, but anyhow... I saw a lot of demo-coders or other artists beside crackers on the boards... |
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Tronic Account closed
Registered: Nov 2003 Posts: 3 |
Wow... This post started by commenting on the Fastlink busts, and then it ended up in a total flame-war..
Woohoo!!! ;-)
Good to see Radar hasn't changed a bit!! :-D
Well... off to read some more useful threads...
TRONIC [ILS] |
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Crossfire Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003 Posts: 221 |
No no, we agreed this wasn't a war, just a heated discussion *LOL* |