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cbmhardware
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 19 |
THE DEMO ?
The year 2004 is nearly finished, 22 years after selling the first "c64" , I am curios about your suggestion about "THE DEMO". Yes, a straight ten, the one, that may be the goal of all expectations.
What do you suggest ? - An overview of the last years, oldskool parts, following a scenish design , sid at the max , technically and design candies and an experimental last part, to inspire a new way of demodesign ?
I am curiosity about the differences in your suggestions.
I think there is no way to code "THE DEMO". There are surely many differences in expectations.
best regards,
Michael |
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Dwangi
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 130 |
(?) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
best at todays standards:
cycle
best one standing the passing time:
dutch breeze
I'd also add:
altered states
strangely (or not) technical demos always age fast, slideshow like demos with good music stand out always more. |
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
/me looks to the right at the list of "Top Demos", which basically answers your question from a popular standpoint... |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
if you're looking for THE demo, you could also look for THE demo effect or THE woman. no such thing like that, there's nothing that stands out in all categories. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
THE car, THE schwarzwalderkirschtorte ;-)
-2 start press any key..where is the any key?- |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
THE church of LDA STA |
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Shake
Posts: 133 |
we all know THE Computer, that's not a matter of taste :] |
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cbmhardware
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 19 |
I thought about a coming demo. I described it badly - sorry. ;) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I thought about a coming demo. I described it badly - sorry. ;)
at least I understood you :)
I guess the key sentence is "to inspire a new way of demodesign ?" - So I thought of a future demo :)
Like The Demo the NTSC scene did a couple of times.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
I'd always wanted to see a demo, that has all the 'routines' in it, ever invented. starting in real oldskool, ending with the design of top demos of today.
1st screen: flashing borders, 1x1 scroller whatever..
last screen: all that you can pump out in 1 frame..
or something.. like that :-)
sort of like a history demo of the C64. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I'd always wanted to see a demo, that has all the 'routines' in it, ever invented. starting in real oldskool, ending with the design of top demos of today.
1st screen: flashing borders, 1x1 scroller whatever..
last screen: all that you can pump out in 1 frame..
or something.. like that :-)
sort of like a history demo of the C64.
very nice idea, I second that!
My personal idea would be a demno showing in animations how a C64 gets assembled, including a users' finger switching it on :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Now that you mentioned this possible movie..
I have a documentary about Commodore, how it is assembled, and tested etc.
Will upload soon to somewhere!
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Now that you mentioned this possible movie..
I have a documentary about Commodore, how it is assembled, and tested etc.
Will upload soon to somewhere!
Is that that German one from inside the factory which were spread over Edonkey2000 network? If yes, then I have it already. If not, please let me know =) thanks! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: I'd always wanted to see a demo, that has all the 'routines' in it, ever invented. starting in real oldskool, ending with the design of top demos of today.
1st screen: flashing borders, 1x1 scroller whatever..
last screen: all that you can pump out in 1 frame..
or something.. like that :-)
sort of like a history demo of the C64.
I've seen once such on amiga. It was done in amos or smth. and it was hellish boring. it started with a scroller.. then colors (d800) ran over it, then it had background rasters, then the raster was in the chars, then it became a dycp, then a dypp, then come a logo, then the logo moved left/right, then they added rasters, then it moved up/down aswell, then they added fld, then they added fld between each char row, but then they removed the rasters coz that couldnt be done (fld each line+rasters), then they added rasters back..
see ? ihmo there's no point.. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
yeah, hellish boring. there are so many yet un-done effects left, coding those is more fun than coding these _really_ old boring effects. today's versions of old effects is okay though (like hcl's 15 ora dycp scrollers and some of the new crest stuff). but a demo with all in it, well, it would be hellish long and hellish boring indeed. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
The ultimate demo for me would be: It would have to look very pretty, it would have to sound great, it would be very well designed and contain as many routines as possible and break or equal all known records. The demo would also strive to be original, which means all music and graphics would not be based on anything out there already, and as a general rule of thumb, nothing ugly would be allowed (no matter how impressive the routine would claim to be ;)
What would be great would be a theme or a story holding the whole production together.
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hahaha :) this sounds exactly as our "big" demo project :) but god knows when it will be finished. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
don't all our big demo projects look like that? ;) but in the end nobody manages that. just like any other kind of artist who never does the ultimate piece of art of its genre. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
My idea of an ultimate demo would be a demo that utilized the C64 100% in all ways. This means that it would feature fx/gfx/music that everyone agreed was the best ever, and could never be done any better. But this is ofcourse a utopian dream that will never happen (or will it when AI reaches totally awesome h4xx0r skillz?)
Realisticly an ultimate demo could be a DVD with all the best fx/gfx/music from the scene mixed together. I think it would be a waste of time to make it as a real demo, since as Krill said there is still lotsa undone fx waiting to be coded. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
Isn't it partly the reason for many of us to continue making demos with 'new' effects, that there are still many ideas left undone. If someone would make *THE DEMO* (which is of course impossible) the rest of us would simply have to bite the dust and leave the scene as loosers.
Also that *history* demo with all records etc. gathered would be useless as soon as anyone made one routine that was better/faster. It's just an illusion that perfectionism actually exists, and it has been an illusion for twenty years now. That's inspiring! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
actually, besides "fame", being on top10, feedback, etc the most inspiring thing to me in making demos is reaching the goal and making "THE" demo. I have pretty much failed so far ;) (darn soiled legacy is out of top10 ;)
-"There's many effects still undone": that's a bit wrong way to define what inspires us... atleast speaking for myself. It's rather about making better effects than the current ones (incl. new ones), to show that "we" are the ultimate coder gods :D
-"it would feature fx/gfx/music that everyone agreed was the best ever": IMHO dutch breeze has achieved that in terms of gfx and music. Even codewise it can be looked at that way. If it would have featured fillvectors/dots/etc, it would be since long time outdated, but the routines in their territory are still the best.
krill: true, but if this demo will be finished, it will be exactly as defined by wile coyote. *boasts* :)
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Hmm,. I'd like to see something featuring preety many killer fx (Soiled Legacy) with a concept (Red Storm, Refugee) plus an impressive ammount of design/gfx/music work (Insomnia, Cycle). Would this mix be a contradiction? Would the pure coder effects destroy the feeling? I don't know. We all want the dream work anyways..
p.s. Looking forward for the Resource demo, sounds great! In 2008 perhaps? ;) |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
The rule to finish the dream demo is to ignore deadlines and work for as long time as possible. At the end however, deadlines may push your lazy ass hard ;P
Blah. |
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
Bah, making a demo with stuff that everyone agrees is the best is impossible. As for Dutch Breeze, I wouldn't dream of watching it again, so it seems not everyone likes it. And it actually seems there are heretics who don't think that A Quoi Sa Cert? and Industrial Breakdown are the best demos. It's a strange world, isn't it? |
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Nightlord
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
as puterman says, it won't be THE DEMO for everyone anyway. my resolution would be trying to make THE DEMO for my own. and that is not a single point in time where you release a demo and it will be THE DEMO. I don't think anyone will ever be fully satisfied with their own work. so people will keep trying (hopefully)
i don't know if that is possible to put a really impressive effect at the right spot of a so called concept demo where the effect's technical superiority will be recognizable and at the same time it doesn't feel that the conceptual flow was bended that way just for the sake of putting that effect in. it is a bit contradictory in itself and i think might be unsolvable. but search for that balance (i.e THE DEMO for me) is still worth pursuing.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
I know a guy who is coding a demo-kernal.
The goal is to have a construction kit that can be used to make demos with plugins.
A step further in making demos, in my view, is to involve the user more.
Make interactive demos!
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
which somehow reminds me of "broken promises" by sanity on amiga (which was never finished). |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
so... now we only have to grab the best coder, the best graphivian and the best musician together and maybe we'll get THE DEMO ;-) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
instead of talking about doing demos why not just do them? |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
Many stopid statements in here.. like this one by Optimus:
"The rule to finish the dream demo is to ignore deadlines and work for as long time as possible.. ". It's obvious that many of you have never made a demo. With the above statement we would get even more *delay-records*, which doesn't lead to anything more than an inactive scene. Of course everyone who makes a demo wants it to be as perfect as possible, but all these 5-10 years of delay (Meet Crest, Plush, etc..) don't inspire anyone. The hard thing is not to be a perfectionist, and delay the demo release. It's to find the inspiration after 3 years of development, to finally make a demo of all your half-finished crap. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Great idea. Let's make THE DEMO. After that we can just format and throw away all our junk - end of story.
And what was that junk about the routines in Dutch Breeze still being the best. Yaya, I'm sure no one ever made anything cooler than a slideshow-part with 4-5 FLI pictures. Unparalelled routine. |
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Nightlord
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
yes the deadlines (and meeting them) are critical... and speaking of deadlines... is there gonna be a floppy this year? and when? (gotta get the god damn visa covering the right time frame :) )
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
>With the above statement we would get even more *delay->records*,
But that was my point in a way (I should be more clear :). To make THE DEMO someone needs to forget deadlines and give to himself as much time as he pleases. "At the end however, deadlines may push your lazy ass hard ;P" -> without deadlines you may never push yourself to finish a release. I was talking about the contradiction actually.. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
if waiting for years only will result in dutch breeze, then i'd prefer to skip the whole idea of THE DEMO.
although i actually have such a demoproject, after 3 years i have 2 parts... so i prefer only doing something i am somewhat happy with instead. "releasing 4-5 demos of good quality is better than doing one brilliant" as twoflower once put it
nightlord, no, but there will be a floppy next year ;) the last weekend of february |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Here's one way to make THE DEMO. Make it Co-Op :)
List all the effects, list which demo has done it better than all the rest, then assemble these parts and replace music and visual with new :)
All in all, the idea of THE DEMO is possibly not a good one. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
this topic is pointless... I dont even care to defend my opinions. Tastes are different so no point to argue. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
Yepp, close the thread. Or rename it to: "What's the meaning of life?" |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
42 |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
i guess there are a lot of people who plan to release something like THE DEMO, i do myself ;) well, not really, but those people (including me) release smaller stuff in between, like me with 4k demos, mag intros and some onefilers here and there (just mentioning panta rhei here). in the meanwhile, those ought-to-be-perfect parts gather, but also gather dust. in the end there'll be demos with old stuff that, if you're lucky, nobody has done and released in a similar form in the years of lying around solely in your diskbox. demos that have an oldschool feeling attached while most its effects were state-of-the-art when being created. groundbreaking new style, effects or ideas will never be released in a big perfect demo, it just takes too much time that most of us don't have. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Perfectionism is stupid. It takes too long to make a perfect demo, and when it's finally released the creators often tend to quit the scene afterwards because I guess they find it too impossible to try to exceed their perfect masterpiece. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
Hum, not that I'd participate in a 'perfect demo'.
But if everybody looks for such a thing apparently, how comes there are so many good ones? :)
I dont have a favorite demo for each effect...
Even something 'simple' as plasmas can still be cool, well done, beautyfull, hypnotic, etc... its some sort of design and style that makes it fit into the rest...
Unfortunately this is what happens to the PC-scene in mey eyes... There are no more limits on what can be done. Or the limits blure out. Now style is the only thing to be achieved. With great success - sure but I dont like that. The old ones are still the best ones... On C64 coders can afford to take both extremes. I like some old Triad-demos/intros just for their style (no matter how out-of-date (I didnt think to find such an argument HERE) and some 'ugly' others for their skill and then again most of the crest for a nice combination ;)
And in my personal life I tend to NOT like what everybody else seems to. (Football, Harry Potter, LOTR, Windows :)
So the perfect demo sure isnt perfect per definition.
Whatever... I (though failing in sticking to it) like the words: time spend talking about doing is time wasted.
Not that I plan to code such a demo (for lack of many things) but Im going to code around right now after this :)
Hopefully Im not the only one.
Im always surprised what 'old' demos came up with - always worth browsing old disks.
/enthusi |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
i agree with krill here. if making a demo takes too long, it will be a demo which consists of old shit. and my experience is: if you do a new amazing effect, someone else is also working on something similar since previous demos have lead to that idea. |
