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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
4k intro compo?
I found myself coding quite a lot of small intros lately because many current releases to link them are rather small and we do not want to bloat them too much with a giant intro.
Anyone interested to join a challenge creating mini-intros? Different to the 4k category at demo parties 4k would not be the limit for the executable but for memory usage overall at one block. Rules would be similar to Event id #2757 : Intro Creation Competition 2018 just with a lower memory limit and without the requirement for music. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 659 |
Any reason why the memory footprint is limited to 4K? I wonder because, surely, for a small crack, all that matters is the disc size? Eg. If I have a 4K intro that expands out to use 60k, to link to a 3k game, would that be considered lame? |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Any reason why the memory footprint is limited to 4K? I wonder because, surely, for a small crack, all that matters is the disc size? Eg. If I have a 4K intro that expands out to use 60k, to link to a 3k game, would that be considered lame?
Yes, because the intro is larger than the game. ;) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
That would not be focus of the compo. This is more like 4k Intro at demo compos is defined. Focus would be not to use more than 4k at all which is a different challenge. Even more as screen RAM also counts. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
So 16 consecutive pages + zeropage + whole d800 at our disposal? :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
After that "phase" I had in the ICC last year I'd probably have some fun with a 4K memory footprint so yeah, put me down for an entry...
But I still want the regular 16K ICC as well so this is a second category... right? =-) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
@TMR: I am currently thinking about to add 4k as a second category to the usual 16k. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting Didi@TMR: I am currently thinking about to add 4k as a second category to the usual 16k.
Sounds good to me, I'll play in the 4K sandpit. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2219 |
Finally! 16K and 8K were enough for intro _collections_.
4K is the way to go!
Count me in! |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting DidiDifferent to the 4k category at demo parties 4k would not be the limit for the executable but for memory usage overall at one block. So 4K in one contiguous chunk of memory while the intro is running? |
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Dr.Science
Registered: Oct 2011
Posts: 40 |
4k? Sounds like fun :-) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Hurrah for a new smaller category!
However, I'm puzzled as to the motivation for the working memory limit; surely if the idea is to pretend you're linking to a small release, there should be plenty of free space in high memory, and it's only the file size that needs to be small? Perhaps the compo just needs a different name, perhaps 4k RAM intro?
I'll watch this space with interest :) |
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Dwangi
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 130 |
Quote: @TMR: I am currently thinking about to add 4k as a second category to the usual 16k.
Multicompos is a good idea.
These 2 cathegories + demo of the year:) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
It seems there is enough support for a 4k category. So stay tuned for the compo start. |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
Thumbs up! |
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Axis/Oxyron
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 91 |
Sounds like fun. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 659 |
Quote: Hurrah for a new smaller category!
However, I'm puzzled as to the motivation for the working memory limit; surely if the idea is to pretend you're linking to a small release, there should be plenty of free space in high memory, and it's only the file size that needs to be small? Perhaps the compo just needs a different name, perhaps 4k RAM intro?
I'll watch this space with interest :)
^^ that's exactly my argument.
But, yeah, fitting everything in 4k and sticking to the 4k is a different ball game. Needs more definition though:-
- presumably writing to VIC is ok (D000-DFFF)
- Zero page?
- can the stack be used? If so, how?
- etc..
Restricting it to 4k means the rules need to be better defined - rather than just saying "link this 4k release to your 4k intro". |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
Example from last year's 16k compo (modified):
Quote:- has a maximum RAM footprint of $1000 bytes at one block, at whatever location you like. Screen RAM counts as used memory. Exclusions are system addresses like VIC (inkl. Color RAM), SID, CIA, Stack, Zero-page, IRQ vectors. This means RAM besides chosen $1000 bytes area and exceptions has to be the same before and after running the intro. What happens during runtime is up to you. |
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Pitcher
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 61 |
Yeah, why not, count me in |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
If I use bank 0 and want to modify ghostbyte, do I have to place everything at $3000-$3fff? |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Nope, just store the ghostbyte and restore on 'exit'. At least that is how I read the rules.
Quote:This means RAM besides chosen $1000 bytes area and exceptions has to be the same before and after running the intro. What happens during runtime is up to you. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Sounds like a fun challenge! But then not possible to use bitmaps? ...since there's no way to restore them xD @Compyx @Jammer |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting JammerIf I use bank 0 and want to modify ghostbyte, do I have to place everything at $3000-$3fff?
The rules cover that RAM outside your chosen area "has to be the same before and after running the intro. What happens during runtime is up to you." |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
@Digger: I didn't even dare to think about bitmap xD |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Restoring bitmaps shouldn't be too hard. The rules state anything outside the $1000 bytes should be restored. Which means you can include the $1000 bytes in the store/restore function, which should only be a few bytes of self-modifying code.
Edit: oh wait, whatever you store/read to/from also needs to be back to normal. Naybe write to disk/read back? Is that allowed? |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Well, there's space for a third of a bitmap if your code and music are quite small... |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494 |
At least i have my own tiny sid player written for an unfinished 4k game. :) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
The heat is on:
Intro Creation Competition 2019
Go go go... :D |
