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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
Why bother doing a new release
For the past year I have been busy learning to code; yes I was a swapper and never had the time to learn, but now I can. I want to release something(~) and add back to the scene. I thought it would be great for a one-man show to thank some of the fine help here. The code would not the best, but certialy not the worst.
My question to everyone is: Why should I bother releasing an intro or little demo that would be old-skool, when I see the majority of user comments on releases shit-can everything? Would I get nailed because I'm a newbie coder? Or are there more mature minds here?
I need encourgement!
Wozza.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
When I came back to the scene in 2005, I released a demo titled Something Fishy. I was encouraged to put out something by the NTSC scene. When the demo was released, the comments were positive and I felt very pleased with the result. The Euros, who are known for their expertise in demo making, also complimented me on the demo.
Alternatively when I released Old Skool, the results were quite negative. I should mention though, that 99% of the negative comments were made by persons with a personal grudge.
Overall I think that CSDB sceners are supportive of anybody's attempt to create something new on the 64. Even if you are a newcomer to the scene, and your demo consisted of a few raster bars and a single scroller, there would be some positve responses.
We all started at one point. My first routine ever was
LDA #$2A
JSR $FFD2
which I wrote on a piece of paper in the back of a car ride, which printed an asterix on the screen.
While the CSDB forums from time to time may be hostile, for the most part, it's between people who are known to you and have axes to grind with you.
Look at the case of Dr. Video and his release last year. He was a new coder to the scene. His programming efforts might not have been on par with a lot of the other sceners, but did receive encouragement from many of us.
I try never to rip anybody's work apart, even if it is a weak piece of work. If programmers were to rip apart newcomers as a practice, the newcomers would probably give up and throw in the towel.
There are situations (as you will see by reading the forums) where people from around the world do allow personal issues to lead to arguing and trading of insulting words over a computer, but for the most part it's pleasurable to be a coder.
I know I felt much enjoyment after the release of Something Fishy and the support I received from PEOPLE ON HERE led me to decide to remain in the scene.
I say go for it man! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I feel your words apply to me a lot /o\ :)
a, maybe the problem is that I think everyone can code as good (? hehe:) as me, thus when I see a prod under my level I think they didnt put the effort in there.
b, even if someone is not as good, I think he should put some effort into entertaining. yet another 8x8 plasma or etc. is sadly boring for some on the scene for 10+ years. (altho some might find it nice evenso, but thats not me)
so what I say is to simply give your best, but in the meantime think on the poor ppl that have seen the old routines 100 times already, add some new ideas into it, make it fresh.
btw, if you are beginner that doesnt mean the demo must be oldskool, take a trip in the later triad / fairlight, hollowman, puterman demos, and be up to date, do something exciting.
you have to decide wether you want to really entertain the scene, or to release something that already was seen a zillion times...
new coders are always warmly welcome, if you watched closely.
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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
Well, thanks for the encouragment! I will release something; but graphics are holding me back.
The reason why I say old-skool as a first release is because I'm more familiar with it; obviously getting the basics right is essential before moving onto more advanced and 'new idea' orientated coding.
My thanks in your support gentlemen.
Wozza. |
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THE TEA DRINKER
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 39 |
Wozza I would say go for it, I just hope you have some friends you can ask if you run into troubles, that's my problem I have no one to ask, if I run into a problem could be how do I convert a simple basic routine into mc/assembler code.
Well I have no release out for the public yet, hope I get finish with my amiga modules conversions need to code rest but im lazy about it, and have allready taken 2 years just to complete it, the songs are done, the layout is still crappy because text is taken 10KB-12KB and I begin to understand why people makes it in more seperate parts, with IRQ loaders. I cannot remember all this maybe reuse is a good choice why create it again when it's out maybe a look will help. I would just have one big part but now my problem is the memory, and I forget to re-use the routines I allready have made, so if you begin try finish it so fast as possible, that's my advice maybe not the best and yes my collection is allready old, if or when it will be released.
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: When I came back to the scene in 2005, I released a demo titled Something Fishy. I was encouraged to put out something by the NTSC scene. When the demo was released, the comments were positive and I felt very pleased with the result. The Euros, who are known for their expertise in demo making, also complimented me on the demo.
Alternatively when I released Old Skool, the results were quite negative. I should mention though, that 99% of the negative comments were made by persons with a personal grudge.
Overall I think that CSDB sceners are supportive of anybody's attempt to create something new on the 64. Even if you are a newcomer to the scene, and your demo consisted of a few raster bars and a single scroller, there would be some positve responses.
We all started at one point. My first routine ever was
LDA #$2A
JSR $FFD2
which I wrote on a piece of paper in the back of a car ride, which printed an asterix on the screen.
While the CSDB forums from time to time may be hostile, for the most part, it's between people who are known to you and have axes to grind with you.
Look at the case of Dr. Video and his release last year. He was a new coder to the scene. His programming efforts might not have been on par with a lot of the other sceners, but did receive encouragement from many of us.
I try never to rip anybody's work apart, even if it is a weak piece of work. If programmers were to rip apart newcomers as a practice, the newcomers would probably give up and throw in the towel.
There are situations (as you will see by reading the forums) where people from around the world do allow personal issues to lead to arguing and trading of insulting words over a computer, but for the most part it's pleasurable to be a coder.
I know I felt much enjoyment after the release of Something Fishy and the support I received from PEOPLE ON HERE led me to decide to remain in the scene.
I say go for it man!
Quite a few people encouraged Dr Video, including myself. He did not quit due to lack of encouragement, rather it was not having time for it with his new life.
"Old Skool" on the other hand, is nothing for you to complain about criticism, as it was just a bunch of old stuff thrown together to make the first release of the year. All the insults may have been from "persons with a personal grudge", but the negative feedback on that release was honest and you know that.
You can stop trying to make your point about what hostile places forums are, you're just as much to blame for what's happened around here as anyone else. That's being generous.
So, release something fresh and original like Something Fishy and of course you'll get more encouragement. Recycle old buggy parts as a joke, and you'll get the response you'd expect.
Enough high horsing of your point here, and get back to developing that game. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
People coding in 2006 and producing good stuff rocks.
People coding in 2006 and producing shit sucks.
It's that simple. I don't care if you just started, or if you just returned after being gone for 16 years, or if you've been releasing stuff constantly for the past years. Just make sure it rocks.
Don't think we're gonna be impressed because you did some things that were outdated back in '88. If that's all you can come up with, don't bother.
Just my 2 cents. |
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MRT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 149 |
Wozza,
Go ahead and release all the stuff you've made!
There will always be people who like it and there will always be people who don't like it.
What realy matters is that you had a fun time coding it and you're proud of what you released! If that's the case, your releases will never be bad!
And remember, we all had to start from scrap, and we probably all made some crap too... But we all had a fun time creating it!
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
If you have fun releasing your shit, please remember that we will have fun shitting on your release. |
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MRT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 149 |
Quote: If you have fun releasing your shit, please remember that we will have fun shitting on your release.
:-D LOL!!!! |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 358 |
My first code was
lda #$00
sta $d020
(without rts)
I got it some weeks(!) later ;)
Monte
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Minksler
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 2 |
Wozza, I'm a newbie myself and I know what it's like.
Release the work that you are proud of and prepare for rants and raves. It's a thrill whatever comments you get.
Looking forward to seeing your stuff Wozza :)
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Release a game and people are impressed easier, you also don't have to know about flashy/impressive effects, just make the game good :) |
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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
<grin>
thanks for your comments guys; yes I guess we are all time restricted; Kids, wife, career and all that 'why we are here' etc. But bloody hell; I will damn well finish something if it kills me (and err, when I can sneak time). The problem I also have is I have a few weeks slack and get all enthused about the commie, and then life kicks in and it's friggin busy for a few months, going round and round.
Now I need to finish this bloody logo!
Thanks everyone! |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: Release a game and people are impressed easier, you also don't have to know about flashy/impressive effects, just make the game good :)
i was going to say something similar as i spooled down the thread... remember girls and boys, the low end of the games quality threshold is really low right now even if the upper threshold is pretty high with PD on the go (amongst others) so doing something better is just a matter of putting a bit of time and effort in, getting the playability right and making sure the player sprite can respond to the diagonals on the joystick...
Oh, and put in an elephant, ALiH likes elephants so it'll probably get a few more percentage points in Game Over(view) if you do. =-)
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: i was going to say something similar as i spooled down the thread... remember girls and boys, the low end of the games quality threshold is really low right now even if the upper threshold is pretty high with PD on the go (amongst others) so doing something better is just a matter of putting a bit of time and effort in, getting the playability right and making sure the player sprite can respond to the diagonals on the joystick...
Oh, and put in an elephant, ALiH likes elephants so it'll probably get a few more percentage points in Game Over(view) if you do. =-)
Yup, these days a crap game will get you more praise than a crap demo, although a crap game in a crap demo doesn't have quite the same effect.
Like I said, Wanderer should get back to developing that game with Bayliss. ;) |
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V-12
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206 |
Hey Wozza, fuck the comments, just do what you want to do :) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: Hey Wozza, fuck the comments, just do what you want to do :)
Please, don't listen to Murdock coz my annual logoswing-rasterbar-oldschool-we-rule-in-2006-too limit has already reached.
:)
---
-= Silicon Ltd. =-
http://forum.siliconlimited.com
Commodore 64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.blogspot.com/ |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
My view on it is that some energy should be put down in the release, no matter what. A return from someone off the scene for 10 years should be made with some effort (just take a look at the latest Silicon Ltd or Brutal releases). If you're a newbie and try your best, people will probably accept it for what it is and encourage you to continue. As long as you try to adapt your work to the context of today, and as long as you keep improving, your releases are welcome and needed additions to the scene. What you should not do is:
* Make demos American Style.
This means making a press space-demo with 3 parts, all featuring black background and a logo, in 3 or more colors. Furthermore an effect which would have been so-so in 1988-89 should be included aswell. Thou shalt progress!
* Make innumerable games with the same content.
Making several games where you should either miss or grab sprites in a horizontally or vertically based onescreen is not a good idea. You shouldn't increase difficulty with speed either. And you should not publish 30 of them.
* You should not retro.
Never retro. Make stuff in the way you like it, but don't make it intentionally retro. Oldskool, ok, if that's what you want, but try to look at it in the context of what demos are today? Your unique style and touch to it is what matters, not some silly retrovibe. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
I agree with Twoflower. Just put effort in making the production, and there's bound to be somebody who enjoys watching it. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: Yup, these days a crap game will get you more praise than a crap demo, although a crap game in a crap demo doesn't have quite the same effect.
Like I said, Wanderer should get back to developing that game with Bayliss. ;)
>Like I said, Wanderer should get back to developing that game with Bayliss. ;)
Erhm, what makes you think that the game is not being developed as we speak? :) Have no worries, it's set for release next week.
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V-12
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206 |
Scout, this is a forum for discussions, not for your private emotional feelings, you are not the jesus or any other hitler to say who what have to do. Save your offtopic words for yourself.
Back to the main topic - the best thing is to find the idea in your brain, not look what others are doing. The best example is the latest "release" from SWA - technically bad but released just for fun and that's the most important thing!
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote:
Scout, this is a forum for discussions, not for your private emotional feelings, you are not the jesus or any other hitler to say who what have to do. Save your offtopic words for yourself.
Discussion is a form of exchanging personal opinions.
I have an opinion ventilated in that post, so discuss!
Furthermore, you familiar with Godwin's Law?
"You can tell when a USENET discussion is getting old when one of the participents [sic] drags out Hitler and the Nazis."
Just replace usenet with csdb. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quick, close the thread! People are disagreeing and comparing each other to nazis! OMG! Lemon the site! Quick! |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
As I'm not a very skilled coder, I don't appreciate those hard-coded effects, as I have no idea what is hard to create. I judge by design and feeling of a demo. Many of the newer demos are really boring. Being a bad coder at a party is rather fun when watching the demo-compo... When people start screaming "WHHHOOOOOO" at the effect, I know they are hard to create. ;)
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
Now this Thread is getting somewhere..
Never ever believe any Comments made via internet.
Try to work hard on your Demo, and PLEASE release it at a Party, you'll get immediate Feedback, and if nobody likes your Stuff, you can drink a Beer and ask the People what the disliked.
If you are American, you have to visit Europe (NO, IRAQ IS NOT IN EUROPE!)
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
crap remains crap, released by a newbie or not.
that said, by all means, code something and release it. BUT dont let yourself put down by anyone stating the obvious (ITS CRAP!). even the shiniest top-10 coders produced alot of crap when they were practising, and some of them still do and win compos with it :=D
just go ahead, the scene really needs more coders! |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 462 |
"If you are American, you have to visit Europe (NO, IRAQ IS NOT IN EUROPE!)"
Calm down, dude. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Yeah,go ahead Wozza and don´t worry about the comments already,that will only be counter-productive.
I am not much of a coder and have not much time to improve myself aswell.
The trick for a beginner might be to come up with some story or nice design,creating some flow.
I always liked demos from Pretzel Logic a lot,eventhough most was not extremely hard to code.
Hopefully your graphics are decent,it helps. ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I'm actually suprised that there are ppl out there learning how to code, and they say they have noone to ask!
hey you all:
You can anytime start a topic here in the coding sections and believe me coders will love to help you, all these topics turn into a show off, that who can come up with the best solution to your problem.
Pop into #c-64, and just drop a line with your question, or msg me straight, coders will like to help you out ! Sharing knowledge is fun ! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: crap remains crap, released by a newbie or not.
that said, by all means, code something and release it. BUT dont let yourself put down by anyone stating the obvious (ITS CRAP!). even the shiniest top-10 coders produced alot of crap when they were practising, and some of them still do and win compos with it :=D
just go ahead, the scene really needs more coders!
Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. Future Crew's "Yo!" is an example of how you begin small and grow large.
Looking back at some of the 80's demos, they consisted of rasters upon rasters and nothing more. It's all about progress. Come on, you cannot expect anybody JUST STARTING OUT to be able to create plasma, bobs and a nice 64 sprite multi-plexer.
You start small, and grow large. Once again, remember Doctor Video's release last year - a beginning coder surrounded by support from the scene. Sure we could critique new releases and say, "A nice simple raster bar and 8 sprites but you didn't beat my 128 multiplexer, ESCOS picture and 12 DYCP scrollers".... blah....
Programming is beautiful. Unlike cracking, swapping or importing, you actually create. You take an idea and make something virtual out of it. The same goes for graphic artists. Even if you can only make a single scroll, you've made it - it's yours - you can be proud of it - and it will live on in the c64 history.
There is so much support here you can tap into and as Oswald has said, coders are always willing to help. Once you've mastered that simple scroller, you'll look back and be proud - even if others disregard the accomplishment. Then move up, move on, and grow :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Just because you code something, doesn't mean you MUST release it.
And Wanderer, I don't think people will complain that a demo from a beginner doesn't contain record breaking stuff. They will complain however when it's shit.
But the fact that you mention stuff like plasma etc. only proves that you yourself haven't exactly got a clue what a good demo makes ;Z
I think by far the best example of how to do it is RadiantX: his demos don't contain very hard coding but from the beginning it was clear that he has a certain quality and a certain originality. That is what this scene needs imho, not just coders but coders that can bring something extra. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
TDJ: Word! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
You missed my point entirely :)
I was trying to say that we all have to start from the ground up. True, plasma, bobs and multiplexing do not necessarily make a good demo but they do take advanced knowledge.
If we build high expectations for new coders, they will not surpass them. Allow them to start small, gradually build and refine their skills and watch them grow.
Case in point, MANY MANY demos from the 1980's were nothing more than a raster bar and text. Today we scoff at that, but if a newcomer made such a demo it should not be ripped apart. If it's a solid effort and a NEWCOMER's effort, he/she should be supported, not have their work judged as 'shit' (unless it is a self-admitted piece).
You have to learn to code before you can even consider inventing new ideas, let alone recreating old ones. Some of the comments as of late are quite nasty when it comes to critiquing demos and that does a disservice to us all IMO.
No wonder the original poster seemed fearful. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Wanderer, you seem to think that when a newcomer releases shit we have to look the other way. I disagree.
Sure, I will cut a newcomer some slack, but he still needs to bring something to the table to impress me. If he doesn't there's a good chance I will burn his ass.
That's the way of the scene - it always was and it always will be.
Yes, back in the 80's there were lots of demos featuring nothing more than just rasters and a scroll - hell, I've made several of those myself. But you know what? That's almost 20 years ago, there is simply no excuse for stuff like that in 2006.
And let me repeat: just because you code something, doesn't mean you MUST release it. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
The problem is that you cannot define 'shit' because it is based in the eye of the beholder.
If a newcomer entered the 64 scene tomorrow, and learned to code a raster bar, a scroller, to play music and move sprites on the screen - to me that is a considerable amount of knowledge for a new person. Sure, if you've been coding for a year, you should have progressed beyond that naturally.
Of course there is no obligation to release something if you're new, and this is 2006 not 1986 so we have evolved. However just because the demos have changed does not mean the learning principle or the people have.
A person just picking up a programmers manual is not going to jump from a "poke53281,0" to making Royal Arte are they now.
This is where we will agree to disagree. You would "burn his ass" for releasing such a demo and I would give him constructive criticism and say "keep up the good work, you will improve for sure". One approach dehumanizes a person, the other does not.
And of course we all know new coders are anxious to share what they've written, even if it's simple. They want to show off what they've done, they'd like feedback. Maybe it's not going to be the next Second Reality but once again, does the c64 scene need to be so ignorant to those who are only begining to pick up a new skill?
Does a newcomer have to hold off releasing his program for fear that someone else out there will deem it below 'shit' standards. You get the point... to me there's no harm in learning a new skill and showing it to others. For ANYONE to say it is 'shit' is saying, that's not good enough for me - and it's not up to you or I to make that call.
You can respond and I'll read it, but that is all I can add to this exchange of idearrrrs. :) |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
I have nothing further to add to this thread.
Coconut. |
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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
Well I think I'll wrap it here. My thread was not intended to cause any ache, so sorry if it did.
I feel encouraged to finish off what I have an move onto something bigger and better.
What I have gathered in summary is this: (with optimism)
If you are a beginner coder such as myself, and put some effort into your (first) release members of CSDb will support and encourage you.
(Others may not - but you a big enough and ugly enough to handle it arent you?)
Need help?; well bloddy well ask in the coding forum.
Try and put some originality and (maybe) storyboard flow into the design and you have a better chance of getting a more favourable review.
Gentlemen...
<twist cap off beer>
Cheers. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
"I try never to rip anybody's work apart" (Wanderer)
Yeah, instead you anonymously release other people's unfinished work without their consent. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
hehehe
At one stage I posted a comment on one of WDRs demos along the lines of 'buggy, rasters bug in ntsc and pal, old effects'. He sent me a pm telling me 'all your demos are shit, absolute shit'.
hahahaha........ |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: hehehe
At one stage I posted a comment on one of WDRs demos along the lines of 'buggy, rasters bug in ntsc and pal, old effects'. He sent me a pm telling me 'all your demos are shit, absolute shit'.
hahahaha........
[ Accidentally quoted the guy with the faggy haircut ]
Lord forbid CSDB doesn't forget Mermaid's uploaded and unfinished game.
Two months later we still hear about it. Is there any point to this except to cause another forum war? Surely not. You lost nothing monetary unlike some other authors of games whose work appears on CSDB.
Time to move on. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
@Wanderer: your provocative patronizing tone turns offensive.
If you enjoy humiliating people,do so when working.
You´ll get fired rather soonish.
Act dumb,enjoy the rewards.
You ought to recognise this behaviour! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm not interested in debating this topic.
The past is in the past.
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
I sincerely hope you will learn from it.
I really do!!
(and I won´t edit my post to tell you AGAIN!) |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Johan, I hear you and I understand what you're saying.
I'm tired of hearing about the past, plain and simple. I'm tired of the bashing in the forums.
Between Christmas and now I uploaded enough stuff to be put in the top 10 uploaders. I made enough ON-TOPIC posts to be in the top posters.
I did not start each of the messes that led to forum lockings. In those cases it was people rehashing stuff from Christmas time. Mermaid is no exception.
I've pissed people off, yes. I know I have enemies.
The question is, how long will it take for them to move on and get over the past? Two months, ten months? A year?
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
But WDR, you talk such shit!
from above - "For ANYONE to say it is 'shit' is saying, that's not good enough for me - and it's not up to you or I to make that call"
from a pm - "you have 4 credits to your name and the demos SUCK. I mean they are absolute shit."
You try to act all innocent, and you consistantly say and do really stupid stuff!
We're not arguing with you, we're laughing at you! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
>from above - "For ANYONE to say it is 'shit' is saying,
>that's not good enough for me - and it's not up to you or
>I to make that call"
In the context of a newcomer uploading their work to CSDB and being judged by more experienced coders, it is.
For me, a coder with 20 years experience, I can judge your release and say it is 'shit'. I would not do this to a new coder.
Oh look, Slarti Mcfly just signed in. Just as a moth chases light, doth Slarti McFly chase me :)
Oh, and there is no 'we'. There is just you and Slarti McFly :D Laugh away, it's healthy to laugh. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
20 years experience? hahahaha, nice one.... you forget that you left the scene for, oh I dunno, 15 years of those? :)
Funny thing is, even with your '20 years experience', my stuff is still better than yours and always has been - you are in absolutely no position to judge anyone!.... bahahahaha
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Fair enough Mike,I dig you!
I am happy to see you around.
Your work down here is to be an example for many,I mean that!
Your ´fights´ with Slarti are entertaining,for me atleast,sorry scene. ;)
Some actions by you just suck and the past is as close as my last breath. ;)
Mermaid got hit and she didn´t deserve it!!
It will be remembered and it will never look good.
Still,you have my respect.. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
You can respond and I'll read it, but that is all I can add to this exchange of idearrrrs. :)
Time to move on.
I'm not interested in debating this topic.
I have nothing further to add to this thread. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I left the 'scene' but I never stopped coding. I've some PC demos here that I've written and a few (eg. Show Up) demos on the 64 that I have not put out.
It still qualifies me to form an opinion on your demos that I would not do for a newcomer.
I think this will adequately rectify your confusion over my 'talking shit' :D
LOL looks like Slarti McFly posted as usual only after Simon posts. The so called 'victim' once again shows his passive-aggressiveness. Notice Slarti McFly will only post when it is 'safe' to do so (eg. immediately after Simon). In fact, in another thread he posted 4 follow ups to my every message like a true obsessed fan boy would and should. Sadly he has yet to understand his words will never be read (ignore mode is a beautiful thing).
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/img.jpg |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
I'm pretty sure this thread was wrapped up nicely by the original poster already. No point getting needlessly offensive now is there?
Some people never learn. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
OK WDR, so what youre saying is that while you wont ever say some newbies stuff is shit, in a few years when theyre no longer newbies youll tell em their old stuff was shit?
Nice! Youre an absolute winner! Go Wanderer! HAHAHAHAHAHA
SLarti only rocked up here cos I said 'hahahahahahha, wdr talking complete shit on csdb again' on irc. He's always game for a laugh, altho I think we're actually starting to feel sorry for you...... It was funny when we thought you were a troll, but now we're starting to think youre serious which is just sad...
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
@Style: Having IQ190 is deserving of an amazing release..
Shouldn´t take a minute,smartypants. ;P |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
hehehe...
stuff is in progress, probably not amazing since I have several other hobbies and a life (wife and 2 kids), but itll be cool enough. Might take a little longer since I want it to be fully PAL/NTSC compat throughout. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: OK WDR, so what youre saying is that while you wont ever say some newbies stuff is shit, in a few years when theyre no longer newbies youll tell em their old stuff was shit?
Nice! Youre an absolute winner! Go Wanderer! HAHAHAHAHAHA
SLarti only rocked up here cos I said 'hahahahahahha, wdr talking complete shit on csdb again' on irc. He's always game for a laugh, altho I think we're actually starting to feel sorry for you...... It was funny when we thought you were a troll, but now we're starting to think youre serious which is just sad...
Simon I will have to make my response into something you can comprehend because you seem to have great difficulty interpreting my English.
Here goes:
You neglected to mention the part where I said, "I only attack those who attack me first". That was you in the forums, you attacked me out of nowhere and you continue to do so.
The answer to your question would be a resounding NO, I would not attack a newbie years down the road. If you need any help with that explanation please let me know. I will try to simplify it :D
I am proud to say I get along with people on many forums and on here as well. Yet two people in particular have an unhealthy history of needing to obsess over me.
Slarti will always be on here when you are, it's like the little dog who chased Spike (the large dog) on Bugs Bunny. "Want to play with a ball today spike? huh huh? do you?" "Want to go catch some cars today Spike? do you? do you?". It perfectly demonstrates the interaction you two have. It's even funnier when he sees I'm on here and every 10 minutes or so he signs on, looks for messages, signs off and comes back again. A compulsion to see if he's received a response from me.
Slarti McFly was quiet for almost two months until you posted - thus providing the much needed backup he requires. If you weren't here, he'd be speechless.
The poor guy, booted off of Lemon 64 because he could not stop complaining about... me :) Despite Kim Lemon's request he stop, poor Slarti could not. It's not even a case of "would not" it's "could not". He has stated he is "MOST likely to reply", a sad case of self control.
So yes, you were both wrong about my trolling. Christmas came and went and I made no posts about anybody. I even uploaded software and made some on topic posts. It was all going quite peaceful until... until you and Slarti McFly decided to start all over again.
It's "sad" as you say that I am serious. For most users on here don't see themselves being pursued the way I am - their every post followed up on with nonsense replies. They don't see themselves mentioned in the one-liners or even other CSDB entries - without provocation.
It takes a special kind of person to devote that much time and effort to following me around the forums. I think Slarti really just wants to open a line of communication more than anything, either that or he is still holding on to anger issues. Perhaps he is testing to see if he is truly on ignore (as he is).
In any event, I really do hope a day will come where I can logon, make a post and not see tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dumber feel a compulsion to respond.
For the most part it is mildly amusing, I have never had such obsessed people pursue me before, even in my line of work.
I can't give Slarti the attention he desires nor engage him in the battles he feels are necessary.
In the history of CSDB has there ever been a user who was obsessed over as you two do? Who had their every word followed up on? Heck, I just checked an OLD entry for someone elses game and Slarti McFly followed up on it.
You should really look up borderline personality on Google. It paints an image of exactly what your friend is doing :)
I doubt another post is going to rectify your obsessions but I'm sure you can continue to entertain one another. By the way you do know you provide much entertainment? :D
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: hehehe...
stuff is in progress, probably not amazing since I have several other hobbies and a life (wife and 2 kids), but itll be cool enough. Might take a little longer since I want it to be fully PAL/NTSC compat throughout.
Let´s do another IQ test. ;)
No offence,but NTSC...
Just a black-out,really.. ;) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: Let´s do another IQ test. ;)
No offence,but NTSC...
Just a black-out,really.. ;)
hehehe, its more of a 'because I can' situation :) It started when I wanted to make my fullscreen sideborder DYSP ntsc compat, and grew from there :)
As for your rant wdr:
1. you know nothing about the situation on lemon.
2. you seem to have megalomania - go talk to a professional - the world doesnt revolve around you.
3. you accuse slarti of stalking you, and then spend time making a slarti mcfly poster? egads!
4. your characterisation of slarti following me around is incorrect - he only checked here cos I mentioned your insane post. He commonly gives me urls of insanity he sees around too... we often sit on irc in disbelief.
5. your post was too long to be sane - and arent you meant to be ignoring me? Or is this just a precursor to more abusive pm's and then your usual 'hahaha, I knew all along what the response would be' style rants?
6. Engage slarti in battles? I see 2 posts in here from him, both completely dismissive of you. Are you sure you arent accusing him of something you see in yourself?
Youre a scary, scary man.
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
OK,I´ll wait for something I´ll probably never see.
And if it does show up,i`ll wonder why it was made in NTSC. ;) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: OK,I´ll wait for something I´ll probably never see.
And if it does show up,i`ll wonder why it was made in NTSC. ;)
Why wouldnt you see it? Dont you watch demos?
Then why are you asking about it? :)
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Sorry,irony migt be hard to understand.. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: hehehe, its more of a 'because I can' situation :) It started when I wanted to make my fullscreen sideborder DYSP ntsc compat, and grew from there :)
As for your rant wdr:
1. you know nothing about the situation on lemon.
2. you seem to have megalomania - go talk to a professional - the world doesnt revolve around you.
3. you accuse slarti of stalking you, and then spend time making a slarti mcfly poster? egads!
4. your characterisation of slarti following me around is incorrect - he only checked here cos I mentioned your insane post. He commonly gives me urls of insanity he sees around too... we often sit on irc in disbelief.
5. your post was too long to be sane - and arent you meant to be ignoring me? Or is this just a precursor to more abusive pm's and then your usual 'hahaha, I knew all along what the response would be' style rants?
6. Engage slarti in battles? I see 2 posts in here from him, both completely dismissive of you. Are you sure you arent accusing him of something you see in yourself?
Youre a scary, scary man.
1) Poor Slarti took his feelings to a tagline, was forced to remove that and put it into his 'Location' instead. Kim Lemon told him to remove it and he refused. A normal person would comply, Slarti was unable to comply and insisted he keep the 'twonk' tags. It's part of the disorder. He also harassed a moderator with DOZENS of messages because the offending entry was removed with force.
2) The world does not revolve around me nor would I wish it to. What I would like is for you and Slarti to find healthy posting habits that don't entail my threads - yet you seem unable to.
3) LMAO. Dude, as if I made that poster in the 10 seconds between replies. Obviously you aren't aware of the 'friends' on my side of things. But yes, Slarti is a stalker.
4) Slarti is a stalker plain and simple. If he were local, I'd be almost fearful. No sane person goes around CSDB hunting for someone elses message AND entry comments AND making one liners about them. Slarti however does. Fact not fiction.
5) In order to communicate, we need to type. Put down the comic book and pick up a novel to grasp that :D You were on ignore but I wanted to read what you said, hoping it would be about the original topic. Alas, no, more obsession.
6) I refer to the last two days not today's posts. In one day alone there were four post made to every single one of my replies. In fact, I think that he sat on here waiting because they appeared within very short time. Is that healthy? lol
You will earn the right to call me a scary person when I am booted from four forums, refuse to change my profile because I NEED to put the people who've hurt me within it, when I smoke enough drugs that I have to scream to my friends to help me, when I run around the forums leaving messages after every one of your posts and also include you in the one-liners.
Until then, the title of scary person is occupied by someone else. Hehehehe.... anyway it's poker night.
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: Sorry,irony migt be hard to understand..
Irony?
I dont see anything ironic.... maybe you mean sarcasm?
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: Irony?
I dont see anything ironic.... maybe you mean sarcasm?
Nope,I ment Ironic..
Still hoping to see it one day.. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
1. Completely wrong - Slarti was indeed asked to remove the twonk from his tag, but the twonk in his location came from an admin. This was all periphery anyway. Again, you know nothing about it. The problems actually arose because the mods were being too harsh, and Kim let them know it. Unfortunately Kim also put faith in people who let him down several times before, and backstabbed longtermers who'd only ever done good things for the forum. His choice.
2. This wasnt your thread....again, megalomania.
3. OK, because you keep saying it, it must be true. uhuh.
4. OK, so now youre repeating yourself. Keep saying it, really, and it will become true.
5. uhuh. So you took me off ignore cos you *had* to see what Id said, and Im the obsessive one....riiiight....
6. Slarti has been kicked off more forums than that :) Most of them he was quickly reinstated, because he was *right*. His opinions are rarely popular or diplomatic, but the guy knows what's going on. Witness the recent c64 DTV forum fiasco. Simply because Slarti refuses to say 'yeh, you ripped me off, its ok, and please! do it again!' he is a 'troublemaker'.
Answer me one question in all honesty - when you showed Slarti's posts to your 'collegue' who came up with an amazing ascii only based 'diagnosis', did you show him/her your own posts at the same time?
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: Nope,I ment Ironic..
Still hoping to see it one day..
Please explain!
I see no irony here - if you meant that its ironic that if you actually witness the release of my demo, it will be NTSC anyway, the demo will be both PAL and NTSC compatible throughout.
Sorry if that wasnt clear. But its still not irony ;)
Best example of irony Ive heard, from Friends - Joey's neuro-surgeon character on DOOL falls down a lift shaft and sustains massive head injuries - and dies. The only surgeon good enough to save him, was himself.
Thats irony. Here endeth the lesson :) |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: Please explain!
I see no irony here - if you meant that its ironic that if you actually witness the release of my demo, it will be NTSC anyway, the demo will be both PAL and NTSC compatible throughout.
Sorry if that wasnt clear. But its still not irony ;)
Best example of irony Ive heard, from Friends - Joey's neuro-surgeon character on DOOL falls down a lift shaft and sustains massive head injuries - and dies. The only surgeon good enough to save him, was himself.
Thats irony. Here endeth the lesson :)
There´s your answer..
Your patient died. ;) |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: I left the 'scene' but I never stopped coding. I've some PC demos here that I've written and a few (eg. Show Up) demos on the 64 that I have not put out.
It still qualifies me to form an opinion on your demos that I would not do for a newcomer.
I think this will adequately rectify your confusion over my 'talking shit' :D
LOL looks like Slarti McFly posted as usual only after Simon posts. The so called 'victim' once again shows his passive-aggressiveness. Notice Slarti McFly will only post when it is 'safe' to do so (eg. immediately after Simon). In fact, in another thread he posted 4 follow ups to my every message like a true obsessed fan boy would and should. Sadly he has yet to understand his words will never be read (ignore mode is a beautiful thing).
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/img.jpg
I always wondered why you were so obsessed with young men, Mr. Strickland. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Mmmm, retard scene. CSDB wouldn't be the same without it!
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
bla $ffff,x |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I think we broke WDR. He's currently walking in circles in front of his computer blathering about jam toast and pulling at his ear-lobe.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
INC SIMONS_CRY_FOR_ATTENTION_IS_NOTED
LDA SIMON_AND_MCFLY_PURSUING_ME
STA 0wn3d
JSR ALWAYS_ON_THEIR_MINDS
JSR TOO_BUSY_WITH_MY_FOUNDATIONS_FISCAL_YEAR
JSR TO_SPEND_ON_KOOKS
JMP MEETINGS_WITH_ACCOUNTANTS_N_PROJECT_MANAGERS
JSR ONLY_ON_HERE_TO_CHECK_MESSAGES
STA NO_TIME_FOR_FORUMS
LDA I_LIKE_THE_WAY_YOU_DANCE_SIMON
STA MY_OWN_PERSONAL_CLOWN
CMP CAN_YOU_DO_THE_CHA_CHA_NEXT_FOR_ME_LMAO
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
yup, we broke him :(
Sorry Canada.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
<Message ignored>
Not bad, less than 8 minutes for you to login and reply.
I love my new personal dancing clown. Can you do the macarena for me next? :)
Come on post another reply, you know you WANT to :D
Please keep it up, while I head off to sleep. Just like Mastercard, 0wn3rship has its privileges. :) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
oh, so since he lost, he's gone into the 'lalalala Im not listening' phase and the 'I knew youd do that, I am in control of you' phase.
I guess he'll follow up with the typical abusive pm, and then more pseudo-psycho babble.
Learn to lose freak.
cu next time
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Yeah, I see the relation between the topic and the last few comments.. (now, this IS irony).. Stop it, or take it to the PM, we're not interested in your infantile despute.
bla $ffff,x indeed! |
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A Life in Hell
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204 |
Quote: INC SIMONS_CRY_FOR_ATTENTION_IS_NOTED
LDA SIMON_AND_MCFLY_PURSUING_ME
STA 0wn3d
JSR ALWAYS_ON_THEIR_MINDS
JSR TOO_BUSY_WITH_MY_FOUNDATIONS_FISCAL_YEAR
JSR TO_SPEND_ON_KOOKS
JMP MEETINGS_WITH_ACCOUNTANTS_N_PROJECT_MANAGERS
JSR ONLY_ON_HERE_TO_CHECK_MESSAGES
STA NO_TIME_FOR_FORUMS
LDA I_LIKE_THE_WAY_YOU_DANCE_SIMON
STA MY_OWN_PERSONAL_CLOWN
CMP CAN_YOU_DO_THE_CHA_CHA_NEXT_FOR_ME_LMAO
Your code is broken. Everything below the JMP is unreachable. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
guffaw! :) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Oh, and so sorry to do this, but!
Back to topic - Wozza, Im a coder in West Oz. If you need some encouragement/advice/help with anything flip me an email.... always happy to help out a fellow aussie.
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Wildstar
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 50 |
Quote: I feel your words apply to me a lot /o\ :)
a, maybe the problem is that I think everyone can code as good (? hehe:) as me, thus when I see a prod under my level I think they didnt put the effort in there.
b, even if someone is not as good, I think he should put some effort into entertaining. yet another 8x8 plasma or etc. is sadly boring for some on the scene for 10+ years. (altho some might find it nice evenso, but thats not me)
so what I say is to simply give your best, but in the meantime think on the poor ppl that have seen the old routines 100 times already, add some new ideas into it, make it fresh.
btw, if you are beginner that doesnt mean the demo must be oldskool, take a trip in the later triad / fairlight, hollowman, puterman demos, and be up to date, do something exciting.
you have to decide wether you want to really entertain the scene, or to release something that already was seen a zillion times...
new coders are always warmly welcome, if you watched closely.
I would like to add a comment to what Oswald as well as resound what Oswald said.
If you use 'old skool' routines. Mix it in a new creative way. It would be good to be creative. When thinking of the demo, develop a presentational concept from beginning to end. Be loose about it though and be realistic.
Don't attempt to do something you can't do until you understand the pre-requisites to doing it, first. In short, you end up going nowhere.
For starters, working in multicolor bitmap mode, hires bitmap and charset mode(s) would be a good place but think creatively. Borrow the creative concepts you have seen in many new demos. Look at Crest and demos from both NTSC & PAL land and think about new combinations and work creatively. Of course, your first demo will not be that intense as the well experienced but give it a presentation piece with creativity and excitement.
From a n00b to a n00b.
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Wildstar
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 50 |
Quote: Just because you code something, doesn't mean you MUST release it.
And Wanderer, I don't think people will complain that a demo from a beginner doesn't contain record breaking stuff. They will complain however when it's shit.
But the fact that you mention stuff like plasma etc. only proves that you yourself haven't exactly got a clue what a good demo makes ;Z
I think by far the best example of how to do it is RadiantX: his demos don't contain very hard coding but from the beginning it was clear that he has a certain quality and a certain originality. That is what this scene needs imho, not just coders but coders that can bring something extra.
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