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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
downvoting
howdy sceners,
i dont know if this was discussed before, but i am worried about this topic for a while now.
downvoting seems to be a real pleasure for some beings. but it doesnt make sense at all and falsfied the statistics. i know, there`s no accounting about taste. but is there any reason, for e.g., voting that less for maniacs of noise? just have a closer look to their stats! 4 votes, yet, with only 1 and 2 given points are really a joke to me!! surely for others too. this applies also for alot of other pretty cool productions.
however, maybe this rubbish may be stopped by changing the vote rules!?
some things that crossed my mind...
voting less then 5 points shouldnt be possible with an hidden pseudonym. the "TOP" categories should be separated by the release of year. an all time favourite list for each category can co-exist for sure :-)
i personally think that it does not make sense comparing demos from 2008 with demos from 1998 oder 1988.
Voting less then 5 points should be stated with a comment. week-minded comments and/or votes should be deleted by the admins.
there are for sure many other things that could be changed for a fair ranking and voting system. maybe i am absolutely wrong or just getting old (or both).
however, just post your ideas and comments. i am really curious ...
peace and keep on rockin` |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Voting is the most flawed feature of CSDb.
It is pure and simple FAIL.
There have been numerous discussions about voting, downvoting, upvoting and statistics.
They all end in disagreement.
I don't vote.
And I don't care about the statistics based on the votes. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
I think there is only one way to deal with this: Don't take the voting too seriously. There is no such thing as a fair voting system.
<edit> ..and besides, i'm currently #1 so don't f**kn change anything!! ;) </edit> |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5077 |
"the "TOP" categories should be separated by the release of year. an all time favourite list for each category can co-exist for sure "
that would be a very nice feature.
"..and besides, i'm currently #1 so don't f**kn change anything!! "
nah, just do as you said: dont take voting too seriously ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
infact the voting is completely artificial and all statistics are randomly generated. |
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daison
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 90 |
Quote: I think there is only one way to deal with this: Don't take the voting too seriously. There is no such thing as a fair voting system.
<edit> ..and besides, i'm currently #1 so don't f**kn change anything!! ;) </edit>
Lol :)
The (immortal) judges seem to suddenly gain on you though... |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
three words for the vote bitchers:
GET A LIFE
instead of complaining about the votes. It is there for a fun fact. Don't like it? Don't vote, or actually DO vote and make it to your liking! Rally people. It's a democratic thing.
Celtic, as you already say: There's no accounting about taste... some like it, some don't.
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
There is no fun-fact in voting...especially here at csdb.
The voting system is (ab)used to settle old wars, start new ones or to 'correct' people when they wrote something in the forums/comments that didn't agree with the likings of the (down)voter.
That's why the voting results of, for example, sceners are not realistic here and should be ignored. |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
sounds like a fun factor to me :P who gives a shit about votes. So people who don't like my comments will downvote me... well, what is the big deal Scout?
There is no big deal, just the CSDb drama that is starting to become usual to me too. More bitches, less usefulness :P
Does anyone actually USE the votes/resulting ratings for "oooh, what demo shall I watch this time?" "Which crack shall I try now?" _MY_ assumption is that everybody will have their favourites anyways.
That would actually supply a base for the votes to be useful. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2916 |
Ah yes, down voting some after they say something you don't like in a posting. Sounds a lot like this "assiduous" clown from my own experiences here on CSDb.
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TPM
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109 |
Quote: sounds like a fun factor to me :P who gives a shit about votes. So people who don't like my comments will downvote me... well, what is the big deal Scout?
There is no big deal, just the CSDb drama that is starting to become usual to me too. More bitches, less usefulness :P
Does anyone actually USE the votes/resulting ratings for "oooh, what demo shall I watch this time?" "Which crack shall I try now?" _MY_ assumption is that everybody will have their favourites anyways.
That would actually supply a base for the votes to be useful.
There are a lot of anyone's favourites, which i didn't know or remember. E.g. Think Twice III & V last week in the top-10. Watched it, enjoyed it and c'est ca. True, the voting system actually supplies a base to be useful :) |
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assiduous
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2007
Posts: 343 |
Quote: Ah yes, down voting some after they say something you don't like in a posting. Sounds a lot like this "assiduous" clown from my own experiences here on CSDb.
your post indeed had alittle in common with the vote but not in the way youre thinking- a person using a flawed logic simply cant be a good coder. thanks for your input anyway Jon. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
Hey this is the downvoting thread, please go into the bitching thread for flames. |
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tbolt
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 6 |
Quote: your post indeed had alittle in common with the vote but not in the way youre thinking- a person using a flawed logic simply cant be a good coder. thanks for your input anyway Jon.
trolling, sign of a clown
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
Heh better put some wood on the fire...
Ofcourse its hard to make such voting. Depending which years you were scene active then you get your own favorites.
Guess it will never be solved... Burglar and me have a few ideas on how to arrange that on the c64heaven site.
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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
It is just nuts that people are holding grudges for more than fifteen years. Downvoting someone for the sake of hostility is just low, not to mention immature, no infantile! If someone does a good job on something, they deserve a good vote. |
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Kickback
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97 |
You know... You take the good with the bad, and with anything people will use it and abuse it. No matter which way you cut it voting will always be flawed. Unless you do something on the lines of MAJORITY rules, which even then that might be flawed.... But I trust that there are more serious people on here then "clowns".
If that was the case I wouldn't see this place going to much further. So "clowns" never grow up....
And I could have sworn it said I was #1 last year LOL!!!
So go figure! |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1065 |
This topic feels so... fresh.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
Quote:Burglar and me have a few ideas on how to arrange that on the c64heaven site.
no worries, they will have sufficient anti-downvoting technologie in the next millenium :) |
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Medicus
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 43 |
If csdb shouldnt become some communistic, censoring plattform votes of any kind should be accepted as valid. Democracy, right?
Only thing that can be done is weighing the votes using mathematics just like imdb does. |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
even democra(z)y needz zome rulez... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
rules for voting? that sounds very crazy to me =)
and ofcourse, there is already some weighting going on - however, the major problem (by far) is the number of actual votes. if something has a few hundred votes, "downvotes" will have no real affect on the result. on the other hand, if something only has a handful of votes, the result ist almost random even without downvoting =) |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
Hmm, well, it's not just downvoting, it's the whole package,like upvoting, no voting etc that quite obviously make the vote system a joke. Example: some people just give no less than 9 or 10 to friends (even if a release sucks), so silly and transparent ;).
But this topic has been discussed many times, and it has not been changed, so just ignore the votes.
I for one simply judge a release by what I think of it, and do not take into account who dunnit. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
Quote:Hmm, well, it's not just downvoting, it's the whole package,like upvoting, no voting etc that quite obviously make the vote system a joke. Example: some people just give no less than 9 or 10 to friends (even if a release sucks), so silly and transparent ;).
yes but, if enough votes are given, than this kinda stuff is statistically irrelevant. and if not, then the results are statistically irrelevant alltogether =D
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
This discussion is irrelevant alltogether. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
@Groepaz: True :) And a lot of people don't vote, or just for some specific releases...There are still a large number of releases without even 5 votes. On the other hand, to get a valid unbiased score, though, 5 is not enough. I'd say 30 or more would be a good cut-off for more validly calculating a weighed average. But that's the statistician speaking.
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2916 |
democracy? haha, yes, thats the scene...
*plop*
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5077 |
the problem is with the people not with the voting system. invent the spanish voting inquisition or smth. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
the problem is with the people not with the voting system.
indeed. the main problem are those people that can't understand that there aren't "right" or "wrong" votes, and that a half meaningful result could be calculated from less than a few hundred (or even thousend) sets of data :) |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 434 |
to get more votes is pretty easy! just make them all PUBLIC and those downvoting will get (down)votes for them/their stuff aswell :D democracy, ah well, nonsense :) |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
true... at least i wont take it to serious and dont care anymore... thanks for your comments and point of views...
but i still think it should be possible to make it more balanced. maybe the top 10 ranking should have one simple rule... they can be only reach the top when they get over 100 votes, so some imbecile downvotes haven't that big consequence for the rating. |
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Wildstar
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 50 |
LOL, doesn't matter to me. I don't use the voting system to determine anything. I look at the demos and screenshots. I know a single screenshot doesn't tell everything about a demo but of course multiple screenshots showing different parts can give a idea of how it might look.
If it looks really crappy (to me - its subjective), then I might not look at the demo so much but certain stuff that A) catches my attention and B) Holds it - certainly gets a great chance of me viewing it.
Demos is an art and the key to art is to A) catch the attention of the audience and B) Hold their attention.
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
howdy, this is still gnawing on my mind... ;-)
what today come up to my head is:
you shouldn´t take the average percentage, in meaning of
"CSDb users have given a weighte daverage vote" for building up the rankings. but... you should simply count the total of given user points.
even voting just a single point would add ONE point to the total. so the small-minded dudes cant downvote a shit for stupidity when they give only one single point. ok, you can still push the topics, but you cant fuck everything off...
i really would like to know how the rankings would look like with this method ;-)
wutdayazincabout?
laterzzz.... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
that sounds like a great idea - IF you could make every user vote for every production. in any other case that idea is completely stupid =) |
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der_ton
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 11 |
#33, #34: It's not completely stupid, because it gives the "popular" productions an advantage. It's the same as the average vote, but multiplied with the number of voters. It shouldn't replace the current rating system, but it could be an interesting table to look at, maybe in the fun stuff section. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
such a point system works in a compo, where most people vote for most entries. but here, where only a minority of the users actually vote, and then they vote for a small subset of all entries its completely pointless. the numbers would be even less meaningful than those of the current system. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
upvoting would become the rule, hehe. Seriously.
Also I already presented the obviously best idea once here somewhere :-)
Each person has a list of his 10 fav releases. (maybe 5 for each category or whatever).
The rank of a release is measured by the times its on someones list. More work for the server but foolproof as far as I can see.
I'd also be willing to sell this idea to CSDb *g*
But noooo, voting is a no-go here (partially for good reasons). |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Just get over it. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Why dont you do this ?
Anonym vote != allowed anymore
Best solution.
Then we can see who the fuckheads are.
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