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8bitforever
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2009
Posts: 48 |
New 8-bit TV-computer
A Commodore 64 competitor has arrived again. :-)
Has anyone some experience with the "Educational computer" or "8-bit TV-computer" or "Victor-70" or Famicom ?
All names above are names for the same computer.
It´s based on the 6502 processor.
It can play NES cartridges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjSLZ-x-GxM
http://www.itexaminer.com/12-indian-computers-tip-up-in-silicon..
http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKPP1
http://playpower.org
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
wasnt famicom an old nintendo clone? |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
The NES was a Famicom clone, sold only in USA and Europe. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Ok, brown wasn't too fashionable as a colour, but blue?! |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Nothing new about this... Famicom clones have been around for ages. I own atleast 16 different flavours of those consoles myself. A few comes with keyboard, others are modelled after other consoles and some are built into joypads. They are all based on the same pirate-manifactured Famicom chip. A one-chip Famicom/NES if you'd like. Only the plastic housing and perhipals differ them really.
Some take NES carts, most take Famicom carts and a few takes both.
For those not familiar with Nintendo history, Famicom is the japanese "NES". Released before the NES, utilizing another form factor on the cartridges and perhipals such as a keyboard and diskdrive available as add-ons. The NES was derived from the Famicom and contains (essentially) the same hardware, aimed for release on the western market. No keyboard or diskdrive was available for the NES, as opposed to the Famicom.
Famicom games can thus be played on a NES with a converter inbetween to make the carts fit, and the other way around.
When it comes to Famicom clones I'm mostly fascinated by the different plastic casings available. I have clones shaped like a playstation but with a cartslot beneath the lid where the CD should be. Others are shaped like an original Famicom (red & white with non-removable joypads), SNES-lookalikes, Megadrive lookalikes, built into N64 joypad lookalikes... I could go on for ages.
Most of thse clones also comes with X built in games. Both old pirated rom's and newly coded games (I can see a chinese sweatshop, lines of people forced to code new games for Famicom clones, oh the horror!), and also some old games reworked into new ones (sprites exchanged and so on).
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8bitforever
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2009
Posts: 48 |
Taper,
Do you know where to buy them in Sweden ?
Have you done some assembler coding on them ?
Do you know any links to forums about them ? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
http://nesdev.parodius.com/ |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
No, I don't know where to currently pick one up. However, it shouldn't be too difficult. Make a habit of visiting smaller stores which stock import goods (asian stores, middle east stores and the likes), I've bought a couple of mine in such places. Also, keep an eye out when on city fairs, I've found a few there too. And, at times you can even buy Famicom clones at swedish mailorder gigants like Ellos, Josefsson and so on. Not that long ago one of them stocked a Famicom clone built into a driverswheel.
No, I have never tried to program the Famicom/NES. Doing it on the actual machine is probably not an option. I have some Famicom clones with keyboard and a cart containing Famicom Basic, but you can't save, and who want to play around with basic for more than 10 minutes anyway... So, you need to crossdevelope. And you need one of them nifty flash carts to run what you've created on the real thing (unless you come by a Pc Jr ofcourse...).
I recommend that you check www.nesworld.com from time to time. Beside a lot of NES/Famicom information, new homebrewed stuff is often featured, aswell as reviews on Famicom clones (and in some cases links to places online that sell them!). |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
This might or might not contain a Famicom clone, I have one dancing mat with a built in Famicom clone myself:
http://www.halens.se/ProductPage.aspx?pid=028103&mid=508&sort=0..
This also looks suspicious:
http://www.halens.se/ProductPage.aspx?pid=028407&mid=508&sort=0..
´
By the way, check out http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones.htm to see what a vast djungle of Famicom clones that exists... |
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8bitforever
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2009
Posts: 48 |
Thanks taper,
You broden my perspective on where the famicoms can be found. :-) |
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Black Belt Jones
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 57 |
i bought one 2 months ago in indonesia for a friend, called 'fleco', made to look just like a slimline ps2, came with 2 controllers, and a gun. cart slot under the cd door. looks like its not mentioned on the clone websites as yet. build quality was unbelievably cheap, but it worked :) i think they were trying to save money on cable too, cos the bloody controller cables were not longer than the length of your arm - literally! not sure what they were thinkin there.. nevertheless, nice little kit. |
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Lax
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 5 |
I checked the site mentioned in YouTube -http://playpower.org/
They are talking on a project of $10 computer. They claim that for the 3rd world, even $100 is too expensive.
I think it's a missed opportunity. Why not make a real commodore clone for a similar price (or just a bit more). If it will have to have a nearly full backward computability for the C=64, Then it will gain a huge collection of software and games, many of them may be donated for such a project by the copyright owners. I can imagine a huge Rom that contain tons of stuff, and the possibility to add much more.
Can you imagine a mass production of a C=64 clone? Most units will be sent to Africa, it can accumulate to bigger amounts than all the C=64 that was sold 20 years ago.
Anyway, it's nice to imagine such a thing :-)
Is it practical ? ;-)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
nes-on-chip solutions are readily available, and cost almost nothing. thats why. |
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8bitforever
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2009
Posts: 48 |
I came to think of the C64 DTV. That was cheap and almost one chip. Hope it will go into production again. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
I would love to see the C64DTV manifactured again, in an updated form with cartridge port and better SID emulation.
That said, it's way too late to try to outsell the Famicom clones. They have been manifactured in millions allready, and for many, many years.
But sure, if anyone wants to compete with the 10$ computer idea from Playpower, why not go for the C64DTV design as a competitor. Then again, I'm not too sure that Playpower's approach will work anyway. |
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ne7
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 17 |
i've had a couple of these clone famicom keyboards since about 1999/2000 they've always come with Basic (as that was available on the Famicom anyway at some point in the past) but never seem to have any way of saving anything so they are pretty darned useless for any dev work :)
one of the keyboards i had did come with a parallel port which i seem to remember i managed to hook up to a old crappy printer and got some text to print -once after a huge amount of effort- but that was about it :D
andy
ps a good tip when looking for these odd bits of kit is to look for 8bit game or 8bit compatible or 60pin game in the description of the unit you are looking at (ebay is a good one for finding loads of these :)
if you want a good laff check some of these fruity clones out: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=8%20BIT&IndexAre.. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
WTF? The NES is not a clone of the Famicon. They were both made by Nintendo. |
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madcrow
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 39 |
Famiclones/NESclones are all pretty much crap anyway. Despite the fact that the NES hardware has been unencumbered by patents for several years and is very well documented in the C source code of two or three different very accurate emulators, the Famiclone makers are STILL using the same inaccurate and crappy early 90s ASIC designs used by the first pirate Famiclones. Someone really needs to come up with a good open source NES in VHDL and maybe then somebody might use it to make a good Famiclone.
--------------------------------------
please have pity on the n00bish emu kiddie responsible for the post above. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Ptoing: Mne? Perhaps you should re-read the thread? Nobody is saying that Nintendo did not manifcature both the Famicom and the NES. Are you totally missing the point here?
Madcrow:These cloned chips are ofcourse still used because they are dirt cheap. Why on earth would the pirate manifacturers spend money on perfecting the chip, when it in fact can play more than 90% of all available Famicom/NES games (some with glitches yes, but why would they care?)?
Perfecting the chip would take time, time equals money and the cost of the clone would increase. And let's face it - the only reason those clones sell is that they are so damn cheap. A used NES from ebay is way more expensive than a clone. |
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Stingray
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 117 |
I bought a NES clone (meant to look like a PSone) while I was in Mauritius 2 years ago, I got the expensive version (The Spider Man Bundle with 1000 games!). It was 400 rupee (around $12). The thousand games were just the same 10 - 20 games repeated 100 times ha ha, and there was no Spider Man game. I remember the box stated something like Realistic Digital Graphics, Digital Stereo Sound & Worlds Most Powerful Console. Had fun with it though and the control pads have DB9 connections on them.
I remember Escom once talked about relaunching the C64 in developing countries. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Stingray: Hehe, I have saved some of the boxes for my Famicom clones, and while some are kinda honest displaying "8-bit System" and such, some others have the same super-giga-power claims as yours. :) And, pictures of PC or console games on the back, totally unrelated to what's in the box.
By the way, your clone joypads might have a db9 on them, but they will not work on a c64 anyway, as the Famicom/NES use a serial transfer protocol for joypads. I wouldn't try to plug them in, actually... the CIA/6526 might not like that... :) |
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Stingray
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 117 |
Taper: I grabed it out of the cupboard on took a couple photos :)
As for the control pads, yeh I never did try them in a C64, there pretty dodgy and the cables are only about half a meter long. I have a couple of Mega Drive controlers and I think im going to buy a couple of the 64JPX adaptors from Nicholas Coplin at 64hdd, has anybody else used these adaptors before? |
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Stingray
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 117 |
I got the 64JPX adaptors and a couple of NEW Sega Mega Drive controllers. Very, very happy with these adaptors. These adaptors also have special modes, should be good for Wizzball etc. The extra port on the side of the adaptor is so you can have a mouse connected at the same time as the controllers.
When I purchased the adaptors I asked Nick if they will work with some Wireless controllers that I already had, he wasn't sure. After being very pleased with the adaptors being used with the Mega Drive controllers I connected my Wireless Controllers, worked brilliantly, very very happy. Finally I have wireless controllers on my 64 :) |
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morphfrog
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 32 |
Another site where you have NES clones are www.dealextreme.com a china based store witch have free shipping around the world.
And the customs haven't checked the stuff I have ordered form there yet :-)
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linde
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 47 |
There are also pretty sweet Mega Drive clones floating around. On DealExtreme I bought a joypad with an SD card interface that lets me play most mega drive games (with some glitches and mono sound of course). With all the complaints people have about famiclones, I don't think they are as accurate as these. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I've been concidering one of those sweet double (or triple) function console clones like the Retro Duo (SNES+NES) or the Yobo FC 3 (SNES+Megadrive+NES). I guess that the NES-clone is the weak point in the bundles. Anybody got any experience with these? Save for those, one of those new handheld NES-clones would be swell too. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
@Stingray (or someone else): Why would you need some sort of adapters to connect megadrive controllers to a C64? As far as I remember, they work anyway, without adapters? |
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xaMpi
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 9 |
@stingray
Your setup looks very nice!
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Stingray
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 117 |
@xaMpi
Thanks :)
@Frantic
The wireless controllers in the photo will not work at all without the adaptors.
The adaptors also provide functions for some of the other buttons on the controller, most importaintly the waddle button, this works well when using a control pad to play games like Wizzball.
When you have a Mega Drive controller pluged into the C64 any typing you do will be screwed up, but not if you use the adaptors, you can type no problem plus you could also have a mouse connected at the same time.
Some PPL say using the Mega Drive controllers without diodes in CCT can damage your CIA.
Also, it may just be me, but when I have had Mega Drive controllers connected directly to the C64 the fire buttons have been a bit dodgey (as in doesn't always seem to work). |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
As Stingray says, Megadrive/genesis joypads used on a c64 is rumoured to be hazarous for your 6526 chips. The keyboard does indeed fuck up when a MD joypad is plugged in. However, I'm yet to hear anyone who can actually confirm having blown a CIA by using an MD joypad. Still, I would for sure not risc it, 6526 is sensitive enough as it is. However, Mastersystem joypads are safe to use. I've been using one for several years.
About the "NES-in-a-chip" chip (hehe), it's not as bad as some make it seem here. Out of my carts I think I only found one that it couldn't take (Castelvania III if I remember correctly). Sure, some games do glitch, but to be honest, some games glitch on an original NES too, so... ;)
Not saying it's better than the real deal, but it's totally accaptable. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Well - first of all, the sound is kind of borked on the NES-clones. I believe it has something to with the volume-levels of the different channels. Follin-stuff does f.ex never sound as booming and crisp as it does on the original.
Save for Castlevania III (I doubt any MMC5 game works) - Mach Rider and Slalom doesn't work on my clones and neither does that awesome firefighter game and some other oldies. But it's nice that it weighs nothing. |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
When I recognized that some keys weren't working when connecting the MegaDrive/Genesis controllers I cutted (more or less randomly) some wires to make them work on my stock C64 and C128D. Didn't had any knowlegde about what I was doing back then but it work quite well. So over years the joypad was my favorite joystick (and it's still doing fine...). |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Odd.. I've been using Master System and Megadrive pads
on my c64/128's for years, I've never blown any chips.
The only problem I recall and have encountered recently
is when it's plugged into Port 1. It stops me from typing
anything on the 128-d keyboard. I may have to check just
out of interest.. I can't say i've ever had to make any
wacky adjustments or rewire any sega pads to work on the
commie..
:)) |
