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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
S.E.U.C.K. games and Chris Yates
Should Chris Yates be credited with coding every single S.E.U.C.K. game released? Please discuss. Personally I find it pollutes the database immensely. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3177 |
To me it's excessive info, crediting the used tool's author it's too much. No one is crediting Cadaver for code if they make a tune in goat tracker, or Oswald if they painted with P1. On the other hand, why not crediting Jon Wells aswell when they use the sideways seuck? =) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 482 |
These games still contain a lot of code made by Chris Yates and would not work without it.
But then the coder of a music editor (e.g. Cadaver for Goattracker) might be credited as well because the final playable result still contains a playing routine made by the coder of the editor. Hm... But in case of music the the code-part is minor, but same goes for (IRQ-)loaders which are credited as well. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
What about credits for Krill's loader ? Or Rob Hubbards music ?
where do you draw the line ? |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Re: Krill's loader, there's already a separate credit type for "Loader". I think there should perhaps be credit types to cover for more passive contributions to releases. It could be quite interesting to be able to look up what was e.g. Chris Yates' last release, but with him being credited for lots of stuff he wasn't involved in making it gets kind of hard. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1159 |
I'd say that when the editor outputs the same code automatically into the production binary (as with SEUCK, also musiceditors) it's unnecessary to credit the coder of the editor.
IRQ-loaders on the other hand always need some degree of manual linking/integration, and there I'd always include the credit, same as if the loader coder had been part of the production team.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
the credits should only ever contain credits for those who were *directly* involved into creating a release.
crediting the coder of a gamemaker is about as useless as creating the coder of the packer or musicroutine. or spilling credits to JCH into all and everything that uses a ripped jch tune for that matter. be happy that i am not in the position to delete all that crap. (and i find the loader credits equally useless - whats next, crediting the commodore guys for the kernal code because your crappy trainermenu uses $ffd2 ?)
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Would it be better to just add "made with SEUCK" to the production notes instead...? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
as if anyone needs that hint =P |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3177 |
Crediting musicians, which are hardly directly involved in creation of intros/demos/games, is the only way to correct wrong credits stated in the products, believe me sometimes they are wrongly credited even today. Not speaking of those intentionally wrong (self-attributed aka ripoffs), it's the only way to restore the true credits, and this database helps a lot on identifying tunes thanks to the fact we can set the true credits. Also, there is almost no way to know if a product contains music made by the author especially for that product or simply reused/randomly chosen by the coder from the shitload of tunes that authors like JCH made as standalone and never meant for a specific release, so it's better to credit them always than not crediting at all. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
thing is, the same is true for pretty much anything. seuck is a clear case though, its hard to mistake it for something else :) (and as for sids - personally i think linking the sids in an entry serves the purpose, adding actual credits in the entry is pointless and redundant) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3177 |
ask a sid tune author if he does like to see a tune from him NOT credited, especially when he wasn't asked for permission to use it. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
by that logic also everyone who made a sprite for some game must be credited in the respective demos that use them. and dont forget the coders of the games that were cracked =) (and actually both would be more reasonable than adding credits for linked sids that already contain the proper credits) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
delete csdb:\*seuck* all
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Quote: delete csdb:\*seuck* all
If the idea of this database is to catalogue everything the scene produced, then why get rid of things?
There are also enhanced SEUCK games (many by Jon Wells and Richard Bayliss), so the enhancers should also get credit. |
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Mase
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 8 |
Could be worse, could be like Gamebase64 where no-one is credited for anything on their games apart from Chris Yates and Mr. Nobody. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:If the idea of this database is to catalogue everything the scene produced, then why get rid of things?
because not everything produced was produced by the scene. and because not everyone who produces something is a scener. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 482 |
... what brings us back to the discussion what is the criteria to make someone count as a "scener". ;) |
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Quote: ... what brings us back to the discussion what is the criteria to make someone count as a "scener". ;)
I run a site that collects SEUCK games - http://www.seuckvault.co.uk - and quite a few of them are by sceners who are listed in this database. Then you add on the cracks and enhancements - they may not have scored very highly in the cracking charts, but surely they count? Example - would you get rid of Twin Cobra created by The Sarge/Triad? Twin Cobra [seuck] |
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Mase
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 8 |
Quote: delete csdb:\*seuck* all
Not everyone shares your bias, and speaking for myself, the approach of making SEUCK games is mostly graphics driven. I like to push pixels and that includes creating my own loading pics... So if you prefer, anything I do would be a C64 graphics release with a bonus game attached ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:... what brings us back to the discussion what is the criteria to make someone count as a "scener". ;)
excellent hangover material =) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting Maseand speaking for myself, the approach of making SEUCK games is mostly graphics driven. I like to push pixels and that includes creating my own loading pics... So if you prefer, anything I do would be a C64 graphics release with a bonus game attached ;)
Sure, some people make some 'pretty' looking SEUCK games but IMHO they are all the same. Most, if not all, are boring, repetitive and a waste of time. It's great that people are being so creative with it but it's something I am defiantly not a fan of.
My 'care factor' for all things SEUCK is at ZERO but hey, If people are having fun and being creative with it then that's all that matters =D
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