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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1926 |
Cleaned my download directory ...
Cracking in 2011? DRAMA!
Let us start with: YOU ALL SUCK!
Wtf is it that about nobody gives a flying shit on release quality? Are you people actually testing and putting _some_ time into releases lately?
While cracks which obviously received some more time are of nice quality I have also seen an incredible amount of things which could have been done better - regardless of the actual game quality.
It is ALLOWED and DESIRED to put loading pictures, musics and "one page hit space" docs onto the mainfile. Making SINGLE FILE releases.
Nowadays it is an absolute necessity to make all trainers selectable (including level skippers) and to check your crap on a simple NTSC x64 setup.
(And IMHO an added builtin levelskipper needs to disable hi-score saving.) Obvious spelling errors seem to be at the rise as well.
So, I hereby request deletion of:
(L)(SEU) Psykozone +D by Onslaught (2011)
(L)(SEU) Project Argus +PD by Onslaught (2011)
(L)(SSE) Mutilator + by Excess (2011)
(L)(SSE) Nyaaaah! - 15th Anniversary Edition + [seuck] by Excess (2011)
(U)(BDC) The Lost Caves 1-6 Collection +3D by Genesis Project (2011)
(U)(3DC) A Chance in Hell [3dck] by Dinasours (2011)
(U)(SEU) Stone Age Fighter Stone Age Fighter [SEUCK] by Dinasours (2011)
Cant remember - the reason for the rule I suppose:
(L)(SEU) Seuck Armageddon 1 by Wanderer and Crypt (2008)
Legend:
L=Locked
U=Unlocked
3DC=3D Construction Kit
BDC=Boulder Dash Construction
SEU=Seuck
SSE=Sideway Seuck
Will delete the unlocked entried on my own if people don't veto. Rant on any entries I missed to publicly ashame the release group a little more.
Moderation please take on the locked entries.
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
I dislike SEUCK games but I usually download everything that's posted. if the file/release/music/gfx/whatever is shit, it gets scratched from my disks.
oh, the dramas..
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
At the very least it is quite inconsistent to apply specific standards of quality to cracks (and, furthermore, not actually of the crack+intro itself, but the character of the GAME that is cracked) while there is no such rules for other kinds of releases. Any little contribution that vaguely resembles a "demo" may stay no matter how poor it is in some peoples eyes.
Why not be consistent and simply let the users define what quality is for themselves? I am sure everyone is able to delete releases from their own harddrives that they don't like for any sort of reason. In addition, a release that sucks will get low votes and people will throw bad words at it and state that "this is not a proper crack" etc etc so it is not that "anything goes in the scene" or that everything will go straight to hell just because you can put it up here freely. No need for the database to take on the role of almighty enforcer of Standards to handle an issue of quality that is rather up to the scene as a whole to determine and "enforce". If some people want to play the more specific game of following the crack standards, they can certainly do so anyway, i.e. some groups or releases may be excluded from charts in certain magazines, and so forth. I just can't see how that is relevant to CSDb in any way, especially not since it excludes productions that are clearly "scene productions" in some sense (as Jazzcat pointed out).
Personally I think the current policy is lame and characterized by cowardliness, as if people were afraid of low quality productions. If there is any problem at all, wouldn't that rather relate to a (potential) lack of high quality releases, rather than the existence of low quality releases?
In any case I think the current policy quite obviously creates more (silly) problems than it solves. :) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
Thank you frantic,
that actually hits the nail on the head perfectly.
well and wisely spoken, there is no need for a self-placed scene-police. The scene always regulated itself.
And I am not speaking about this seuck stuff, but regulations like they are handled on this platform generally.
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1926 |
Sigh... but funny to see the discussion works its way a diff. direction than I thought :)
Let's see. All release rules of magazines are stating for about 20 years that SEUCK and similar game maker games will receive 0 points. Back then when the rule was applied it was even discussed to make it -5. In 2008 CSDb outlawed the uploads of such releases as well due to people having found back that shit and starting to release a shitload of crap. History just repeated itself there.
Now "ordinary" (read as: "not involved in the first release scene" as Jazzy likes to call them) people want the opposite.
As CSDb is _NOT_ seeing itself as a _first release_ site the rules here are not for points. They state a site policy. Clearly. Even to ME - who wrote THE LIST for a few issues, came up with the FTP sites in replacement for the boards (BIG WAOWAO back then!) and not being in the 1st release biz for quite some time now.
IMHO these releases show how retarded "major elite groups" became (and that was supposed to be my main point).
Yes, even these SUCK games belong to the "scene history" now as you released them (and PROBABLY therefore even belong here). Still, YOU are the makers of this history and just creating these entries should make you shiver and whine.
@frantic: IMHO a very optimistic view. People actually DID "badword" for some time and hence exactly THIS rule resulted from it. Also I was not addressing the game quality, but the crack quality. With everybody exomizing nowadays one could really take the saved time and spend it on spellchecking and proper linking.
@slator: "regulation" as in "Federation against SEUCK releasers" demos?
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
@C0: Optimistic, in what sense? I didn't say we can expect high(er) quality releases *if/because* we take the rule(s) away, if that was how you interpreted it. I just meant that I find the rule (at CSDb that is) quite impotent and useless. Dunno if that is an optimistic view? :) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
good for you this sucky editor just killed my wall of text and I don't want to retype it.
so the excerpt of it:
psykozone was released because it is a salesversion and you can buy it at psytronik. It features nice additions compared to a normal seuck game, like a superb loaderpicture, digimusic and a nice startscreen.
project argus was a 2 sided gtw game that features 6 (?) levels with nice "cinematics" and nice musics which got onesided and mem-degarbaged etc.
we had an internal discussion about releasing or not, but we agreed on that they are worth the release as those are far beyond any normal seuck game. we also agreed on that we never do seuck again and that was right after doing them and before this stuff here.
I knew that some ppl might dislike it, but I can stand that, a lot of ppl seemd to liked it. over 400 downloads just on csdb alone and no harsh comments or raggings.
We don't like gamemakers either and my nagging in this thread was not about the actual 2 ons releases but about the way it was presented. it was absolutely disrespectful and arrogant, at least I got it this way. I have to admit that you at least put the stuff to discussion and did not delete the stuff secretly. I still believe that there are other more important topics were our energy is needed than this crap here.
yes we are retarded, but we all are more or less as we are still using this crappy piece of overaged hardware.
some releases are weaker than others, true. but we keep a standard at least and from time to time we pick up some gems and let them shine again. That's why we are still here, we like it the way it is and if some stuff sucks we speak about it and hopefully find a solution, like we always did in all those years otherwise we would be dead and burried like nearly all other platforms.
count me in for an anti seuck demo anyway. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1926 |
To not enforce this discussion I will only answer to this part.
Quoting Slator
it was absolutely disrespectful and arrogant, at least I got it this way.
It was absolutely meant that way. You should know me.
The constraint about "mastering of the crack" on my initial text is still valid. I refer to "normal releases done badly" as well as "SEUCK releases done well".
Only found a rule to get rid of the latter though :(
But hey - I follow rules and wake you up. Good.
PS: Promise you never touch SEUCK again? :)
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I didn't have the time and energy to read all the post in this thread, but what is there really to argue about? For the love of God, gamemaker-releases? Don't you have any shame in your bodies at all? There have been bad releases for ages (unplayable previews, pure introlinks), but lately, things have risen to a completely new level. SEUCK and BDCK-games, semi-basic shit, unreleased (available) crap from 1982. And this on a scene where there are better games made than in ages. Concentrate on those instead.
I'm all with Count Zero on this one. Ok - I see little practical need for NTSC-fixing in these days, but for the rest i'm all in. But to summarize this - the problem isn't that C0 wishes to delete these "releases". The problem is that you had poor judgement enough to release them in the first place. Shape up. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
The problem is I see this DB trying to do more than what it should. It has a policy with cracks yet has no such detail on other release categories (explained by Frantic earlier as inconsistent).
THE LIST - which covers these first releases is something I have done for an incredibly long time. When I decided that we would "use" CSDb as one of the release sites, one of the reasons was that CSDb had the means to stimulate conversation about the release (that FTP lacks). THE LIST will continue to use CSDb, Antidote and TDD as release sites. Hopefully CSDb can try improve its rules to not be so much of a judge on quality but more in cataloging and preserving scene releases. After all, the name implies "C-64 Scene Database", try adhere to that rather than Selective Scene Database. |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
2f: if you had read this thread you might have discovered that is was not about releasing gamemaker games alone but about something else.
if I say I dislike a 0.99:1 copy of a rambo loading picture, does it make us even then?
maybe it is enough of this craptalk now?
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