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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
Event id #3294 : X-2024
I was having a discussion with a few guys over beers in X'2023 and the compos. I was telling about my days as OR8 pilot in the RC world where we had junior, hobby and pro categories for the races.
To make it abit more motivational the people/groups who aren't 20 members strong each with 30+ years of demo coding experience it might be worth while considering other options ?
eg. some of the ideas we discussed:
. Having a pro (ie previous winner category) and hobby section so that contributors are compared to peers of similar experience
. Splitting the voting/ranking for 1 filers from multi disk entries
. Newcomer award for those individuals or teams who never submitted to X before |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
Quoting Bitbreaker... 4k in my view had potential for more entries, there were "only" 6. ...
Yeah, this is really something also more people without 900 years of added involved groupmates coding experience could have put effort into - even all by themselves with some good old coder gfx, including myself (guilty as charged, real life, other party org and lazy bastard).
Splitting it into 1st "expert" and 2nd "amateur" division, wait, isn't X also where you release to compete with the best? And if you end extremely worse than your expectations, you will either work on your skills or better focus on drinking next time - and release your hard drive trash at a smaller party, e.g. BCC :)
I'd support the 1-disk-limit to reduce the "streaming/showing animations from disk" effect. And also because I often (might be my taste) think - why the fuck didn't they leave out 3 parts and made it fit one 1 side. Flip Disk for only Credits or Greetings or right after the Loader to watch the rest feels just meh.
One-Filed versus Trackmo distinction would make most sense imho of all the suggestions. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588 |
I wouldn’t change anything. We were a team of 11 people on No Bounds - and less on our core team.. but we like to fight with the big groups to be honest. It might mean we never break the top 3 at X, sure, but that’s fine.
We make demos that we enjoy to make, and that we enjoy to watch. For me, that’s codeporn.. I just don’t enjoy making these story demos - even if that seems to be where the C64 scene is headed. I like watching the story demos, sure, a couple of times at least… but it’s more the “how the f*** did they do that?” demos that I want to see - and those don’t need huge production teams. LFT made Lunatico himself, Sparta made Got Balls (but borrowing music of course)… so we can all do it. |
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Nith
Registered: Jan 2013
Posts: 15 |
Yeah, my understanding was, that stiff competition and upping your game while trying to reach the top is kind of the most important pillar the scene is built on, would be kind of lame to change that. Also what TheRyk said, X feels like the world championship, you need to be really good to win something.
On a side note: If you can't make it on your own, you can still try to improve your skills until one of the big groups will try to snatch you up ;) Works like in football I guess.
A newcomer award of some sorts would be kind of cool though |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 505 |
Just to clarify my understanding of "newcomer award" - take the best demo that was done by somebody young/debuting etc and reward it. Orgas could easily be the judges there.
Separate "newcomer" compo was never my idea, as it is not a good one ;) |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 505 |
Quoting KrillEverybody would immediately understand "4KB demo" to refer to restricted executable size with unrestricted memory footprint, while "4KB intro" is quite ambiguous since at least ICC rules (restricted memory footprint) have been invented on this platform.
Again, 4kB intro tradition is much older than ICC, for me that's not a valid argument. By the way, if you want to be such precise, that would also require renaming all other sizecoded intro categories, why there is no confusion if the 1kB intro is a crack intro or a 1kB restricted demo?
For me that's a really artificial issue, which should be replaced with more people contributing 4k's instead ;)
Quote:Calling demos intros was a stupid idea from the start, too. :)
Trackmos were originally "trackloaded demos", seems to me that is also not precise... |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2870 |
Quoting wacekQuoting KrillEverybody would immediately understand "4KB demo" to refer to restricted executable size with unrestricted memory footprint, while "4KB intro" is quite ambiguous since at least ICC rules (restricted memory footprint) have been invented on this platform.
Again, 4kB intro tradition is much older than ICC, for me that's not a valid argument. Tradition is made to be broken. That term may originate from some other platform's sub-scene, but calling the things what they are while reducing ambiguity, at a C-64 only party, no less... Well, let's just agree to disagree.
Quoting wacekBy the way, if you want to be such precise, that would also require renaming all other sizecoded intro categories, why there is no confusion if the 1kB intro is a crack intro or a 1kB restricted demo?
For me that's a really artificial issue, which should be replaced with more people contributing 4k's instead ;) Now that's a strawman. Two, actually.
But yeah, more 4Ks. And whatever the category names, RTFR. =)
Quoting wacekTrackmos were originally "trackloaded demos", seems to me that is also not precise... Sure, just another silly name (it sounds cool, though). And the very concept of "trackloading" doesn't make sense on C-64 (while it does on Amiga). =) |
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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
Quoting wacekJust to clarify my understanding of "newcomer award" - take the best demo that was done by somebody young/debuting etc and reward it. Orgas could easily be the judges there.
Separate "newcomer" compo was never my idea, as it is not a good one ;)
Yes... exactly this. Could be a 1st timer at X, never submitted before, new to C64 etc. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1054 |
Quoting Knight Rider... I spent the whole time moaning that the 4 other ones submitted weren't intros, but 4kb demos. I was told it's not CSDB rules that are applying here...
- there are no 4K csdb rules, besides filesize.
- there was no 4K intro competition at X, there was a 4K competition.
- in PC world, 4K intro means 4K demo.
was it really too hard to just read the rules? there was no mention of the word "intro" anywhere. |
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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
Quoting Burglarwas it really too hard to just read the rules? there was no mention of the word "intro" anywhere.
Sure there was, plenty of places...
. X'2023 C64 4K Intro
. Event id #3187 : X'2023 A quick clarification request for the 4k intro compo rules
. on the scs-trc.net page for X2023 the category was 4KB INTRO
. on http://vote.x also stated 4KB INTRO
and even...
Quoting BurglarQuoting Knight RiderI didn't see any update about the 4KB intro. It's 4KB before, or after crunching ? see post #6, #2, #3, #4 and #5 in this thread. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1054 |
Quoting Knight Rider- X'2023 C64 4K Intro
that's how csdb mistakenly calls 4k compos, not visible until after entries get added to the event here.
Quoting Knight Rider- Event id #3187 : X'2023 A quick clarification request for the 4k intro compo rules just cause someone not involved with the party makes a mistake with a compotitle in a csdb post, doesn't make it a rule.
Quoting Knight Rider- on the scs-trc.net page for X2023 the category was 4KB INTRO
Ah yes, will change for next time. The rules themselves did not mention any of the weird rules used by Didi for his crack intro competition.
Quoting Knight Rider- on http://vote.x also stated 4KB INTRO
Incorrect, it said "4K".
Quoting BurglarQuoting Knight RiderI didn't see any update about the 4KB intro. It's 4KB before, or after crunching ? see post #6, #2, #3, #4 and #5 in this thread. [/quote]maybe read post 2 through 6 again. |
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