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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Release id #158304 : Heil Hitler
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 23 August 2017
Moving the comments to the discussion soon.
User Comment
Submitted by Seven [PM] on 23 August 2017
So let me get that right. You're on the forefront deleting "cracks" in the database, but distributing nazi propaganda is part of the scene?
How about you put that shit on your beloved boards and remove it here then.
User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 23 August 2017
Well. It's part of the scene history, just as all other disturbing shit. I bet you can find countries where nudes and porn are banned - should we delete all that too? Disclaimer: germans - don't download this. You probably know your own laws. Just like you shouldn't google "Heil Hitler" etc in Germany.
User Comment
Submitted by fieserWolF [PM] on 23 August 2017
Stop distributing this shit. Also, illegal to have this on your computer or phone in Germany |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Downloaded the screenshot, should I ever have to unfriend multiple people on Facebook, this will probably do it automagically. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Oh, if that is what you're trying to do this screenshot from Proud to Be German will probably work better
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2220 |
Oh my goodness...
Seriously, I'm pretty sure, my political attitude is FAR left from ultra-right, and - though I cannot judge due to censorship - pretty sure I disagree with the whatsoever content, judging only from the title. However, I can't believe we're even discussing ban/deletion.
If you stick to hiding or even banning this one, there's tons of stuff to be removed, whole groups. Among the - according to the Philistine deputy sherrifs - to-be-deleted stuff are many releases where Nazism/fascism is made fun of (it's called irony, humour-free people should look that up). Might not be the case here, but if we start with politics, pr0n's next. What about all the hate intros? Cracked games, aren't those illegal, too? /o\ |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
*erm* I must admit, I don't know what is happening "behind the scenes", but in *this* particular thread I only see three people (including me) who just expressed in short sentences that they personally don't like/need/want this shit. I fail to see the reason for the censorship, philistine, moral blabla debate that followed. Can't speak for fieserWolf or Seven, but as far as I'm concered: I'm not offended, I don't care if it's legal / illegal. I just don't need this shit and if this was *my* website I wouldn't want to host this (at least not available for the public). And as I stated above: I personally choose to differentiate between shit I tolerate and shit I don't tolerate anymore. For *me* this particular release belongs to the latter. If CSDb staff decides they'll tolerate it: so be it. No problem. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
The problem with deleting shit that we all agree on is completely tasteless and offensive is that after that has been deleted then there will be some other stuff on the top of the list of offensive releases. And surely there will be people arguing that if the other stuff was deleted, why can't we also delete this? So, to avoid a constant discussion about what should be deleted, I think it's much simpler to just host everything that's released on the c64 scene, unless it clearly violates the law where it's hosted. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
Mein Kampf became legal in Germany in 2015. Nazi symbols like swastika, SS sign, etc are legal if shown in movies, books, computer games, etc because it's considered art and not nazi propaganda.
Other countries have different laws about nazi symbols, but you can read everything here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legalit.. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: Mein Kampf became legal in Germany in 2015. Nazi symbols like swastika, SS sign, etc are legal if shown in movies, books, computer games, etc because it's considered art and not nazi propaganda.
Other countries have different laws about nazi symbols, but you can read everything here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legalit..
Partially correct. Nazi symbols are fine in things that are considered art or for educational purposes. Video games are not considered art by German law, so any Nazi symbols in games would get your game instantly banned (meaning you can not sell it legally. You can still own it.)
It would actually be interesting if a whole bunch of big games companies would file a class action kinda thing in Germany to get video games considered as art, but oh well. |
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Brataccas
Registered: Jan 2015
Posts: 15 |
This topic is very current - there's an article today in the BBC news about a Canadian town refusing to remove swastikas from a park for historical reasons:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41028895
Personally, these parts of the past are embarrassing, but we can't pretend they didn't happen. I'd vote for some kind of flag to mark 'offensive' entries and let people filter what they want to see. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting BrataccasI'd vote for some kind of flag to mark 'offensive' entries and let people filter what they want to see.
There's something deeply unsettling with this idea in general. Of course, for something like CSDb it would probably work fine. But when it's applied large-scale, as is done silently by Google and Facebook, it leads to a society where people or groups of people withdraw into their own bubbles of ideas/morals/truths that are self-consistent, but incompatible with ideas outside the bubble.
The overall effect of this will be a reduced ability of people to communicate across cultures. It will slow down the Enlightenment again, undoing some of the advances that the Internet brought. It will smooth out and hide controversies in the short term, at the cost of increased risk of conflict later on.
The world may be ugly sometimes, but the first step to doing anything about it is to see it for what it is and live in reality. Hiding the ugly stuff is counter-productive.
This is one argument against censorship, and it is different from the ones put forward by Croozor (where does it stop?) and by hedning (dangers of revisionism).
Like spider-j, I'm not trying to force CSDb to adapt to my moral views. That would be futile, and also uncivil. Censorship, like nazism, is often described as a force of darkness, i.e. the best way to get rid of it is to shine light on it. So that is what I try to do: Looking at the matter from various angles, exposing what I think are the ugly bits. I encourage others to do the same to my arguments.
But I think this thread has gone off on a tangent, because we are failing to discuss a most interesting point made by Seven: If we do not hide nazi propaganda, why do we hide releases that compete with commercial products? Is copyright more important than ethics, and more important than historical accuracy? I can understand how that position is offending. Can we try to shine some collective light on that? |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I understand that to be out of respect as the (hobbyist) creators are usually known here, the circles are small, as are the sales. And it's a time-delay mechanism so that the stuff will eventually be put on download, unlike censoring a release for good. |
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