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2025-02-09 09:52

The Sarge

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 55

Release id #249171 : Blue Monday

Karaoke night with PAL.

@PAL I read your parabel to the scene and karaoke. This is a great way to put it!
I think it is so good so it's worthy of a comment but since this is not about the release itself I started this thread.

I think this is exactly what the scene is about. You cooked it down perfectly and this is also something that resonates with me 100% and something Ive been saying all along.
I doesn't matter how off key it is, as long as it is you who sing, all will celebrate the honest effort and daring attempt to show yourself in a vulnerable moment. And as a bonus maybe next time you will sing a bit better, if it even matters. :)

I guess this is what I want to see in the scene. The honesty and your personality rather than AI.
Yes here comes the AI talk. But since you illustrated it so perfectly I saw a moment where there may be a time to find common ground.

For me AI is like going up, mimic and play professional sounding prerecorded singing in a karaoke bar. What's the point of that? I want to see YOU and what you are about. I'd rather go to a karaoke bar than watch Eurovision Song Contest.

All the respect PAL!

Included PALs comment below for context.

"PS:

I went to a karaoke bar tonight and had so much fun, it made me think about our demo scene.

They all grabbed the microphone. I guess their hearts were pounding, their voices trembling. Some soared, some stumbled, and to be completely honest, many sounded truly horrible.

The crowd sang along, laughed, smiled, cried, cheered, and clapped, not for my satisfaction or the perfection of it all, but for the courage of those who dared to put on a show. For a few golden hours tonight, there was no judgment, only karaoke music, love and pure joy between people wanting to have a great time together.

In another our scene, hard working artists and creators invest massively, pouring their hearts into their demos, music, art or other creations, only to face cold words from those who think they can dictate what is "correct" based on their own narrow views and what they want.

If life were more like my karaoke night, where every voice, no matter if offkey, was worth celebrating, the world would be a better place.

PSS: I sang tonight too. It was the worst one in a way… The whole night was hillbilly and upbeat tunes, what we in Norway call harry music, and I went up there and sang a slow Bowie tune. Lol. I loved it and they did too!"

... 21 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2025-02-09 17:00

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1137

Quoting 4gentE

Quote:
stop complaining about ppl not following your standards...

You know, this works both ways. So it could go something like "stop complaining about people complaining about ppl not following your standards."

So, what you're saying is: everybody should be free to do whatever he/she wants, but not everybody should be free to comment on that. What? I see it like this: if you put yourself and your work out there - you're gonna get feedback, positive or negative, own it, don't cry and whine after the fact.

oh I agree, maybe better to say "stop trying to enforce your personal standards onto others, we don't want to be controlled by you.". I dunno, I was trying to rephrase another person's message.

I totally agree with calling ppl out if they release some low effort AI/wire job.

2025-02-10 08:37

enthusi

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 679

Quote: Hobbies to do things in old and less efficient, yet fulfilling meditative ways will always remain.

I fully second this one.
I do analog photography and code in assembly even for semi-modern plattforms. Not to create the most awesome result (I don't mind, though, if it comes along ;) but since I enjoy the process.
I feel like the essence is doing your best vs than having done the best - both is cool but different and I value each.
It's a bit like Paralympics whose point quite a number of people don't even get.

2025-02-10 08:47

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3075

Quote: Quote:
stop complaining about ppl not following your standards...

You know, this works both ways. So it could go something like "stop complaining about people complaining about ppl not following your standards."

So, what you're saying is: everybody should be free to do whatever he/she wants, but not everybody should be free to comment on that. What? I see it like this: if you put yourself and your work out there - you're gonna get feedback, positive or negative, own it, don't cry and whine after the fact.

Burglar basically said, gfx compos have rules that should be adhered to.

He also said anyone can have fun any way he wants.

I would say. Scene should have standards.

And I agree with you that if a product doesn't adhere to some level of standards (in production quality, and production process, and transparency) criticism and negative feedback should be expected and not frowned upon.

Actually Burglar agrees with you too.

2025-02-10 10:11

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 328

I just want to say one more thing, because I think some things are possibly getting misunderstood. It's about this sentence:

Quote:

stop trying to enforce your personal standards onto others, we don't want to be controlled by you.

When saying "personal standards", I suppose we are (also) talking about the famous graphicians' initiative / paper?

That paper is a proposal of best practices. The main gist of it is: be honest about your artistic processes. So "we don't want to be controlled by you" sounds kinda hysterical, doesn't it? As far as I can see, this worrisome "control" that some "freedom fighters" fiercely reject boils down to a proposal for gfxians to be open about their processes. Amazing.

BTW, if gfxians agreed to be open about their processes, no workstages, timelapse videos or other things that leave a bad taste in some mouths would ever again be necessary. So what's with the pushback?

2025-02-13 04:34

Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 469

head through door to say that i love the Paralympics parallel by enthusi.

2025-02-13 23:06

TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2466

Quote:

first they said: move to the forum, the comments are not for debates!
then they said: move to a different forum, this forum is not for debates!

Next they might say go to ~~hell~~ Lemon or Forum64.de :D

@Burg: Sorry if you're confused that I _TRY_ moderating (I know, it's odd when so-called moderators do that), which includes keeping comments free of OT and time and again shouting BTT in Forums. Looking back, moving the comments to forums, was no good move... If only I had known this would be yet another AI talk,...

Optimistic view:
Far less nonsense in this thread than in any of the other video-killed-the-radio-star threads. If only more people had a more laid-back attitude towards things...

Anyway... so what has DOING SID COVERS OF POP MUSIC have to do with AI...
... also looking at Release id #249721 : Simply CODE7 ripping code is quite different from letting AI help you ...

I'm kinda desperately facing the fact that any criticism generally seems to end in an "AI - evil or useful" debate...

Look at... or to be more precise: LISTEN(!) to(!) the _entry_! It's _music_! It's a cover, ok, no one claimed (would have been hard, hehe) it wasn't...

Bottom Line / My 2 cents:

Dear GFXians and AI worriers,

I do see much of your point,

but pretty please, don't take EVERY release or Forums thread or drama you find for AI Whataboutism, otherwise I gotta tell the mighty Danes to rename CSDb Forums to "AI whining Forums" just to be rid of moderating... (consequently, I'm gonna outsource my (unpaid!) 'job' to AI then)

Thank you very much,
an AI-blahblah-troubled Cleaning Lady

2025-02-14 08:58

Sander

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 500

@TheRyk, I appreciate your work as a mod, and your humor while doing it. But why be so judgmental and patronizing about people expressing their thoughts? Not necessary imo.

Some people could just *skip* reading these threads, but that seems hard.

2025-02-14 12:37

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11510

Or they could stick to one thread and not carry over their broken record to every new thread that is remotely related maybe perhaps?

2025-02-14 13:25

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 328

2 observations:

1) This thread was STARTED by The Sarge and his first post set the theme. Like it or not. Perhaps he should not have started it as a "discuss this release" but as I understand he wanted to refer to what PAL wrote under that release (which was already degenerating into something else than discussion about the release itself way before that)

2) Is "AI Whataboutism" a newly coined term? With a whole new meaning? If so, I was not aware of it. Because what you are describing is not whataboutism at all, but a classical theme hijack. So, it's either a newly coined term or you don't really understand what whataboutism is.

2025-02-14 15:19

The Sarge

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 55

Since it was me who started it, yes, it has nothing to do with the release at all. But we are told if it goes off topic it should be carried over to the forum. So I did. Maybe I haven't understood the rules at CSDb. Sorry if that's the case.

And it was to continue PALs brilliant writing so I thought that was the way to do it... Apparently not.

TheRyk. As a mod I think you should just be short, concise and unbiased when stepping in and moderating. I don't think it's good practice to write a long text and put your own personal opinions on things people have written in a thread and expect it to end. It will only be contraproductive. As you can see now...
Well.
Friday and soon time for a beer. Have a nice weekend!

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