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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
The highest level of admiration is imitation ;)
Joker guys made our day at Xenium with this one!
https://youtu.be/kl8dH7ooRyU |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
F7sus4, for a moment I will act if you had no personal grudge towards me ;), and in a civil way ask you to point out those >Commodore 64< demos in the 90s/00s that were trying to sneak AVI files as killer effects and were called lame. Thanks.
I know you are not a C64 coder (I hope you remember how do I know that), but let me just suggest to consider that maybe you do not entirely grasp that there is indeed some skill in making animations on a computer with such a tiny memory and slow processor. Mind you, no one (at least I never) suggested it is more difficult than realtime efforts, but hey, maybe there is still some skill and difficulty in that which can be - if not appreciated, then at least somewhat respected, hmm?
I also don't remember anyone calling 242 and/or SOTA lame. And that's on a computer with far superior memory and CPU capabilities than C64. I personally think if one day someone codes a mp4/avi player on C64, he will be a coding god to most... ;) |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
And hey, the anonymous downvoting is always appreciated :) an expected result of trying to defend against people spitting on you again. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
If ad hominem is the best answer that one can come up with (while attempting to twist it as a "grudge"), I'd advice to improve the argument instead.
If similar logic would be applied to any C64 production, no one would have any right to bash Wile Coyote converts anymore, and should treat them as if they were hand-dawn. That's how post-modern this discussion has became.
I do appreciate all the effort that was made to put E2IRA to life (especially Jammer's music which carries it on its back), but in all intellectal honesty I cannot place it next to other realtime effect-based demos - that would just be a lie. |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 349 |
64 people -> 64 different opinions with intersections ...
I always prefered "real time effects", whatever that means exactly.
But this disco torus bashed me hard also! I never watched a demo twice a day, except this one. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quote:If similar logic would be applied to any C64 production, no one would have any right to bash Wile Coyote converts anymore
You do get the difference between coding something by a real life person and using a gfx conversion tool, right?
Quote:I do appreciate all the effort that was made to put E2IRA to life
I know! However you try to backflip now, I will always keep in my heart your first, genuine reactions:
User Comment Submitted by F7sus4 [PM] on 26 July 2022
[..]The demo is a milestone already and will be appreciated for all the great design it has delivered.
So it's not just Jammer's music, huh...
User Comment Submitted by F7sus4 [PM] on 4 July 2022
The absurd amounts of perfectionism put into every single frame of the demo are nothing but mindbending. There's no need to list or name the effects, since Arise reworked and reraped all of them thousands of times repeatedly leading to the ultimate form as we see conducted on the screen.
Ultimate form! Nicely put. We do appreciate it. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
F7sus4, so what about the list of those C64 avi demos you mentioned? Still waiting... |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
My opinions as below
Important to maintain the c64 scene. In a time where there is limited releases, every release regardless should be appreciated.
A good demo overall is one that looks and runs good regardless of how it got there. Perfect example is "state of the art" by spaceballs on amiga. Yes it was an animation player via vector coordinates and some bitplane layers providing the "post processing" (and some inbetweening of points between each real frame) but the final output was great. I think some people got a bit pissed off at the time due to some young teenager stealing the light from some other amiga sceners who spent a considerable amount of time tweaking and optimising their realtime code though :-)
E2ira was not just a CSAM frame import/export/playback (if it was just that, the entire demo would last 10 seconds). The demo was great, thats all that matters
Any person with some knowledge will know whether something is truly realtime or not and kudos if doing it in realtime ofcourse
Ultimately... A demo that looks and sounds good with a decent length (not a 10 second flip frame animation) is a good demo no matter how it achieves it
And as some people have said here earlier. If you want to do it in realtime, do it. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Wacek, you have provided quotes that praise the design (yes, it is great indeed, as already said), while the current discussion is actually related to code and the amount of real-time effects in E2IRA (or rather a lack of them). That's quite a lot of whataboutism for a single attempt. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting F7sus4while the current discussion is actually related to code
Sure, what I'm trying to say is: a) there is code, b) there is difficulty and effort there, yet you keep comparing the code of this demo to effortless gfx wiring, which for me - sorry, not to get personal - means you don't get it.
Also, that demo list please, because you keep avoiding the subject. So, should I understand your withdraw your statement on that, or we will get some meat on that bone? |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Good demo will always be a good demo. Regardless if it's animated or not. Some things are and some aren't. Good art will always be a good art.
What counts for me is novelty, freshness, challenging ideas etc.
E2IRA doesn't lack these. |
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