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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #20965 : Mortalis Arisen 90%

2005-09-27 14:13

CyberBrain
Administrator

Posts: 392

Release id #20965 : Mortalis Arisen 90%

Continuing the discussion from http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=20965&show=review

@The Dark Judge: i see your point, a release should be a prod that has been released. :) But party-entries that has not been released (at least not in the form they were in when competing) is a special-case i think. I know that the word "release" might be a bit off in this case...
But even though it's unfurtunate, it's something that has happened a lotta times through history, but that shouldn't mean that CSDb shouldn't have the complete party-results for these parties imo. I don't think it's been a problem till now?

Maybe some people would argue that we should just set the 100% version to be the winner of the party. But that would be wrong imo, as it wasn't the prod that won.

A good solution would be to go back in time and force a rule on each party: "ALL COMPETING ENTRIES WILL BE SPREAD NO MATTER IF THEY'RE FINISHED OR NOT!!!!"

... 52 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2005-09-28 13:58

raven
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137

@WVL:

didnt say it was yours, but there was one which was
used as a compo-machine for some of the demos shown.

Why are we even arguing about this hehe

2005-09-28 14:11

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

i'm pretty sure there was a 1571 used at x2001. krills loader that iopop and i had used for feedback didnt work on my c128d , when krill tested it on c128dcr at the party it worked fine. but during the compo soiled legacy which used a loader by krill crashed at first , and the drive was exchanged. and as i remember it the first drive that was used was a 1571

2005-09-28 14:20

WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898

Quote: i'm pretty sure there was a 1571 used at x2001. krills loader that iopop and i had used for feedback didnt work on my c128d , when krill tested it on c128dcr at the party it worked fine. but during the compo soiled legacy which used a loader by krill crashed at first , and the drive was exchanged. and as i remember it the first drive that was used was a 1571

hmmm.. that could be.. i vaguely remember one of my 1541-II's giving problems, so i might have swapped it at first for a 1571... But there definately was no c128D. ;)

then again it's weird shit.. because i tested all the entries on the compo machine before the compo started.. (well except for Insomnia, i only got that disk during the compo :D)

2005-09-29 20:58

Rattus
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 34

And what did we learn ? Test your demo with C64, C64-II, 1541, 1541-II, 1571, 1581, 64hdd, ide64.... and so on... Boy I miss old times.... If you had 1571, you'd simply make a demo that works on that... though it would have been a onefiler.... Actually... how accurate is the emulating in for example Vice ? Could we test our products in Vice for different systems ? Maybe it could give us a hint.... to fix certain issues... btw... still waiting for a RELEASE, that I can download...

2005-09-30 18:12

Oxbow

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 51

i am fairly tolerant against groups working their ass off and want to present their 'lifework' at a party on a big screen to the c64 audience it is meant for at a night with you the 'right vibe' hangin' in the air...

not only the creators of the demo, but the audience and thus the entire scene benefits from a great compo night don't ya think??

i do think however it is extra cool to have a fully working demo just spread at the party, but believe me, the demo creators know it themselves!

2005-10-01 09:44

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: i am fairly tolerant against groups working their ass off and want to present their 'lifework' at a party on a big screen to the c64 audience it is meant for at a night with you the 'right vibe' hangin' in the air...

not only the creators of the demo, but the audience and thus the entire scene benefits from a great compo night don't ya think??

i do think however it is extra cool to have a fully working demo just spread at the party, but believe me, the demo creators know it themselves!

Sure, but the demo could have been shown 'outside' of the compo as well. In fact I think it would have benefitted from this: people would talk about it in a more positive way (because right now, no matter how good the demo is/was, there's still a negative vibe hanging around it), and when it was finally released it would probably make a much bigger impact.

2005-10-01 12:11

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: Sure, but the demo could have been shown 'outside' of the compo as well. In fact I think it would have benefitted from this: people would talk about it in a more positive way (because right now, no matter how good the demo is/was, there's still a negative vibe hanging around it), and when it was finally released it would probably make a much bigger impact.

That is a very good point! I totally agree!

2005-10-02 14:47

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

A negative vibe around the demo? Excuse me?

I don't see it that way. I see a discussion about "releasing eventually unreleased releases" at compos, which got triggered by our release. Which is good - let's use the occasion to lay a foundation to prevent this kind of thing in the future.

However...

If a majority of the people truly wish to condemn Mortalis Arisen *itself* because supposedly, me and my team members consciously committed an unprecedented yet obvious act of unparallelled criminal proportions (more criminal than, oh say, performing "acts of persuasion" at the partyplace to win votes rather than letting people judge the prods neutrally), if they truly want to judge it with a negative bias rather than judge it purely on its qualities as a demo, then I am appalled. Then I don't see a reason to release it at all.

I do not believe what I just read. This is an insult towards me, my team members, the demo and the effort we put into it. I can't even begin to write down how this disappoints me.

...no matter how good the demo is/was?!

2005-10-02 15:12

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Pfff .. calm down will you. All I'm saying is that it would be a shame if the demo would be known for this 'controversy' instead of its qualities. And believe me, that can happen, I've seen it before. Hell, I experienced it a few times, and it's no fun if people try to diminish your victory based on a situation you're not really responsible for.

Now personally I'm not going to give your demo a bad review once it's released because of this. I liked what I saw last week and I'm pretty sure I'll like it again. But I think it would have been better if you didn't compete with it.

By the way, it's still not clear to me if it was the organisation fucking up (they did proclaim it was non-votable, *after* the result was already made public) or if you guys yourself were always planning to compete with something that you were not going to release. If the latter is the case, well, you should go to hell ;)

As for my 'how good it was/is' line, that's just me trying to make sense of a situation where I saw a demo once and may not see it again. So until the demo is released, yes, it 'was' good ;)

And if you chose not to release it at all, well, you're just stupid aren't you? ;)

2005-10-02 16:16

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

Quote: Pfff .. calm down will you. All I'm saying is that it would be a shame if the demo would be known for this 'controversy' instead of its qualities. And believe me, that can happen, I've seen it before. Hell, I experienced it a few times, and it's no fun if people try to diminish your victory based on a situation you're not really responsible for.

Now personally I'm not going to give your demo a bad review once it's released because of this. I liked what I saw last week and I'm pretty sure I'll like it again. But I think it would have been better if you didn't compete with it.

By the way, it's still not clear to me if it was the organisation fucking up (they did proclaim it was non-votable, *after* the result was already made public) or if you guys yourself were always planning to compete with something that you were not going to release. If the latter is the case, well, you should go to hell ;)

As for my 'how good it was/is' line, that's just me trying to make sense of a situation where I saw a demo once and may not see it again. So until the demo is released, yes, it 'was' good ;)

And if you chose not to release it at all, well, you're just stupid aren't you? ;)

Trust me, that was a calm, collected response, as far as you can be collected when reading that the demo you worked so hard for supposedly is identified with what is really being discussed here. But it definitely was calm.

How you review the demo is up to you (and your neutral stance is appreciated), but you were alluding to a scenario where the majority of the scene will be doing things quite differently. And *if* this is true, then the response I stated holds.

But, I wasn't the only one involved in this project. I can't share my personal viewpoint on the matter yet (although this viewpoint is already known), not without mentioning the other team members. There has to be an internal discussion about it first.

I did not know about the non-votable stuff. Bud mailed me other information yesterday which made me frown a bit. Still - the issue at hand was not an issue at the time of release, therefore, noone can really be blamed. This sort of thing has to be prevented in the future, though.

Finally, it's not quite stupid... what *would* be stupid is releasing a rulings discussion, since according to the statement, that's what this demo is.

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