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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Limitations - Sprites in the Borders
hello,
I was thinking, has anyone drawn up a doc with (pictures :)explaining *all known* possibilities with placing sprites into the border areas of the screen.
I know:
8 sprites can be placed in the upper and lower borders.
7 sprites can be placed in the side borders.
I was thinking, what about the corner borders,is that classed as a sideborder or a top or bottom border (8 sprites).
Another question :) when 7 sprites are placed into the sideborders can the 8th free sprite be placed into the main (center) screen areas or by opening up the side borders, is the option for an 8th sprite not available.
I am asking these questions as i am thinking about designs that use the border areas :)
thanks
/wec
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soci
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 479 |
If i understand things correctly, is possible to have 7 sprites (from 0 to 6)
I assume PAL VIC-II here.
It's not sprites 0 to 6 but 1 to 7 and can be done with a SCPU for example. (Popel Premiere)
Once I've tried to write between the end of character DMA and sprite 0 DMA (using custom hardware) but it's futile. AEC is low in that "gap" so the write ends up in RAM and not in the VIC-II.
So it seems the maximum is 7 sprites on a bad line if you want to open the border with a PAL VIC-II.
No I haven't tried to route around the PLA to see if the VIC-II accepts the write or not. Went too far already ;)
However with a NTSC VIC-II it might work as there's a wider gap and even BA opens for a cycle.
Did anyone tried 8 sprites with open border and badlines on NTSC using a SCPU? In VICE it seems doable, but it does not mean it really can be done.
It could be a world-first! ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
8 sprites without badlines is not possible? sprite 0 conflicts with the d016 write needed ? |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Nah. 8 sprites is very well possible without badlines. Just use any RMW instruction to avoid the sprite 0 DMA,ie DEC $D016: INC $D016. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Resurrecting this thread.
Any examples of:
8 sprites over no-badline bitmap (duplicated first charline color RAM attributes)
with side borders
no line-crunching
? |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
>8 sprites over no-badline bitmap (duplicated first charline color RAM attributes)
I believe that the line repeat and side border opening cannot be done at the same time as the line repeat needs to be done around the cycles where the border is opened. At least not on stock c-64. Not sure about REU. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting MixerAt least not on stock c-64. Euro-PAL-G C-64, that is. =)
Cf. https://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=11&topicid=128036#139183
(Not sure why linecrunching or not is relevant for the question, but the actual goal IS 8 sprites over entire screen with open borders, no? =D) |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Quoting Krill(Not sure why linecrunching or not is relevant for the question, but the actual goal IS 8 sprites over entire screen with open borders, no? =D)
I want a full 200px high bitmap available, with line-crunch this won't be possible.
But I can live with 7 sprites over no-badline bitmap, with open side-borders.
That should work without sprite 0 and no line-crunch right? ;-) |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
There was a Crest demopart (or a hidden part) with 7 "ALKAIDA" sprites flying over a Crest logo. The side-borders were opened but it didn't look like they were b/c of a logo background AFAIR.
Which demo was that? |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Found it – it's in the note of Don't meet Crest |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
Quote: Found it – it's in the note of Don't meet Crest
Logo is made of linecrunch-bitmap in multi-color, which is possible with open borders and 7 sprites (d017-stretched). The faked side-border is the 39:th tile that is stretched into the border, which is an effect that appears when opening the border with single-color bitmap. |
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