| |
mankeli
Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 127 |
About the origins of c64 demoscene
It almost feels to me that C64 demoscene is somewhat younger than the Amiga demoscene. Would that be (historically) correct thing to say? Not by much, but kinda couple of years.
Many of the screens and effects often seen on C64 seem to have done earlier on the Amiga. (like 1986 vs. 1988) - This doesn't surprise me, since Copper makes raster programming so much more pleasant. But C64 setup was still a pretty usable in late 1980s, and much cheaper too, so I wonder if the C64 demoscene did start by trying to imitate stuff seen on Amiga? I mean just a random example of a 1986 Amiga intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg96m76o7JA |
|
... 36 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
|
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4691 |
Well. Both me and MacX has already stated the obvious many times, and we also had a smaller copy party up on the big royal barrow at Jelling, Denmark (close to Harald Bluetooth's runestone) together with Morphfrog and Zzap69 to connect to the true scene. Confused? Here we go again:
The first scene handles were used by the vikings in Scandinavia, like Red-Ass, Óttarr the Vendel Crow, and Ketill Flatnose, for example. This is well known. Runestones were made, where data was preserved for well over 1000 years - look at it as primitive scroll texts, but instead of the text moving, you have to move your head (more or less like a floppy drive, where the head moves to read). Only the elite knew runes, which made this scene exclusive just like the scene is today. You might wonder what all this has to do with the C64? Well, it's a code: as you know C stands for 100 in roman numerals, and then add 64 = 164. The runestone 164 in Spånga, Södermanland, Sweden, just happens to mention a swapper, Guðmarr, who eagerly awaits to visit other countries to spread and mostly get new warez: "Guðbjôrn (and) Oddi, they raised this stone in memory of Guðmarr, their father. He who died stood valiantly in the staff of the ship; (now) lies inhumed in the west." The stone is of course coded for sceners eyes only, as it sports not only long-branch runes, but also cipher runes made of both short-twig runes and staveless runes. Coincidence? I think not.
There is more evidence, but it does not remain, because it is gone. |
| |
Ziaxx
Registered: Oct 2020
Posts: 18 |
I think the original post got "demoscene" mixed up with "demo effects". It's possible that there were raster effects and such on the Amiga before the C64, but to me anything made to be spread to others is part of the scene. A simple picture with a scroller and ripped music is also part of the scene, and those were around way earlier. All those music collections with music from various games as well. Just because it doesn't include raster bars or other effects doesn't excude it from the scene, because then all the new releases such as graphics and PETSCII aren't part of the scene either, and that doesn't make much sense, right? |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4691 |
My guess is the concept "demoscene" was invented on the Amiga, before that, on the C64, it was only "The Scene" - with everyone intertwined in a big chaotic family, making cracks, demos, intros etc.
With the Amiga and Atari ST everything obviously had to be autistically sorted into horrible terms like dentro, cracktro, trackmo whatever. :D |
| |
4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 178 |
@hedning
Thank you for providing us with fresh evidence of demoscene being a direct descendent of the old vikings. Now, this is exactly the sort of new and indisputable evidence I talked about, new evidence that scholars like Krill needed to finally put to rest that false myth we common folk believe, the myth of demoscene emanating from crackerscene. |
| |
AüMTRöN
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 44 |
Quote: Just to stir the pot a bit: i'd like to see proof that the demoscene did NOT originate on compunet.
Good call... I was thinking of throwing the old CNET into the mix... |
| |
Scrap
Registered: Jan 2021
Posts: 17 |
ok… just to end this discussion and clear things up: It was me. I invented the demoscene. Everything. The scene, the demos, every single effect… period. |
| |
4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 178 |
It appears that the demoscene flew into our lives on a blast of wind from Howard Stern's ass. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5074 |
Quote: The demo scene emanates from the cracking scene, and the crack intros, which is well known, with early examples on the Apple II. The C64 scene were prominent early on, though.
no.
you can make interesting visual stuff with computers, and you dont need to remove copy protection to do it. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5074 |
Quote: "The demo scene emanates from the cracking scene."
@Krill:
Why do you seem to have such a burning desire to disprove this? What's the point? And even if there was a point, how would you do that? Disprove it? This has been retold by quite a number of personal experiences (mine included) and a few research papers.
BTW teenagers shouting profanities on conference calls made possible by US supplied cards was also quite a standard part of the scene. Does that bother you also?
what is there to disprove?
prove it first. |
| |
mankeli
Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 127 |
Lol @ hedning. Pretty plausible sounding theory!
And of course there were programs like music collections, piccolo mouso, utilities, letters etc. circulating before Amiga was released. Also programs for Apple2, and for whatever other computers.
But I was thinking if the common visual "style" (with raster effects like rasterbars, scrollers, big moving logos) was invented on the Amiga, since the Copper made such effects part of the "native featureset" of the machine. And by defining an unique look like this, that kind of marked the start of "demoscene". Cracks started to have similar intro screens as well. (I quite frankly feel the Krill/4agentE's debate is mostly arguing about semantics)
It's maybe just my personal bias though. For many others demoscene productions probably don't mean the c64 onescreeners with rasterbars and rotating cube, but the late 1990's 3D engine flybys, or maybe 201x single-shader 4k intros. It's all part of a long continuum anyway. |
| Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 - Next |
