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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Sonic the Hedgehog for C64/128 + REU
We're proud to announce Sonic the Hedgehog for Commodore 64/128 + REU (PAL and NTSC).
This is the first game that has exclusively been designed for the REU, to make a fast and smooth full-screen scrolling version of Sonic with little compromises.
This game is a direct port of the SEGA Master System 8-Bit version of Sonic the Hedgehog, with about 64 KB of code hand-translated from the Z80 to the 6502 architecture.
The game will be released as a free download in the coming weeks (exact release date to be announced).
It requires a C64 or C128 (in C64 mode), a compatible REU of at least 256 KB, a compatible drive (.d64 and .d81 images will be provided) and any joystick or gamepad (no extra buttons required). On NTSC, a C128 or other CPU accelerator is highly recommended.
In the mean time, here's a trailer and some screenshots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGp4a00OeRs
 
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Looks like some real good work there! |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Looks really cool. Probably a lot of gems could be ported by utilizing a little extra power of memory & DMA. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Wow! Just Wow! |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2226 |
Judging only from the teaser video, this seems another quantum leap of C64 Gaming made possible by Mr.SID \o/
definetely gonna make some ppl use their REU - no matter if real or unreal hardware or emulated |
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Frostbyte
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 182 |
Impressive. VERY impressive. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090 |
so this is what you've been working on :) nice!
preview trailer really looks amazing, cant wait to play it through :)
will you do a dev-blog about this? like with pop? |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
No, I won’t have the time, as I have another game to finish, as you know… ;) |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
WTF did I just see??
MY MIND JUST BLEW AWAY!!
Sonic the fucking hedgehog ???
please tell mee that this is not a prank!!
I can’t fucking believe my eyes….
even if its a Reu release this is something else.
Jesus Efffin Christ!!
Early X-mas present..
If so I am a fan then!!!
//Ze Böööb |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4724 |
Bah! We already had Sonic the Hedgehog Preview. What was wrong with that one? :'D |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
Looks incredibly good.
Another wish for a dev blog when you can find the time. |
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Slajerek
Registered: May 2015
Posts: 63 |
Awesome :O |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Spectacular! <3 Only why this tune is so slow? ;) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1931 |
Srsly, Sid - whats wrong with you!!111!11!
Weeks .. gnaa ... |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Impressive!
I look forward to playing the completed game. |
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Morpheus
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 152 |
Outstanding guys! <3 |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Really massive!
/Bacchus |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
Congrats :D
I guess it stands to reason that the REU is needed because of the huge amount of background map data that has to be pushed around when Sonic starts flying. Would a cart version be possible too? |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
@MrSID
some people ask on other forums if it will work with NeoRAM or GeoRAM?
I guess not but wanted to confirm.
TIA |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 681 |
Nice MrSid, what else are you working on? A decent Street Fighter II port? :) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Quote: @MrSID
some people ask on other forums if it will work with NeoRAM or GeoRAM?
I guess not but wanted to confirm.
TIA
No, you can't do anything fun with a GeoRAM... |
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morphfrog
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 33 |
I just say WOW totally mind blowing!
I allmost fell of my datachair and my jaw is on the floor now |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
Absolutely outstanding!! More than crazy to even THINK it would be possible on the C64...
Me likes an dev-blog post, too, if you find the time. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 462 |
this genre of games is clearly not for me, but your masterpiece conversion has to be the nicest looking i've ever seen on the machine O_O |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 476 |
WOW! Already waiting for the cracked jewels versions that run without REU :)
Joking aside, this looks awesomely awesome. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I had wondered who was behind the pixels?
Today i read, Oliver Lindau (Veto) is behind the pixels.
A good choice, as some artists would have opted to overload the screen with crosshatch patterns, which look great from a distance, usually work less well for games, other than in small doses. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 847 |
What bugs me a bit at the moment is the music ... I'm not saying it's bad (far from it, considering that you have 3 voices to play with) but it's more to do with the tempo speed. I don't really remember the 8-bit Sega Master system version that well other than one of my cousins had one ... but did it really play at that tempo on PAL systems? Besides, "NTSC speed" seems more popular with fans of the game franchise (8-bit and 16-bit versions)... all the youtube videos / memes and so on.
Other than that ... what a fantastic looking conversion! I never thought this would be possible! Nice one, Mr.Sid. :) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
@Conrad: The music speed is authentic. Checked the PAL version of Master System Sonic recently and it is the same. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
I have to agree with Conrad.
It plays faster on Genesis/Mega Drive. I haven't seen SMS version though.
@Veto is it you who made the gfx? |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
@Carrion
Yes, I did most of the graphics here. It is a mix of stuff I pixelled on my own as level bg/animations, intro and interlude scr (edit: still close to the original by Ayano Koshiro). Sprites turned out as kind-of a coop with MrSid. The ending was done by MrSid. |
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jab
Registered: Apr 2020
Posts: 20 |
This is a wonderful project and I can't wait to get to play the game!
Speed depends on PAL/NTSC also on the Mega Drive/Genesis. I like the music on NTSC more. Comparison: https://youtu.be/DW-XsGN8oKc |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
I would have thought that the original game speed should be that of NTSC - given that the original game was developed by the Japanese, and they use NTSC like the USA.
Best way to determine the correct speed would be the Game Gear version or even the mobile app version - as they are video system and region neutral. To me, those versions sound NTSC speed. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4724 |
Quote: @Conrad: The music speed is authentic. Checked the PAL version of Master System Sonic recently and it is the same.
<Post edited by hedning on 16/12-2021 08:59>
Correct. Europeans are used to this 20% slower speed game and music. NTSC land (60 hz land) are used to a faster version - which is the speed it was develped for. In modern rereleases of the game SEGA fixed the speed in the PAL version, in many cases - for example for the Dreamcast if I recall correctly.
Said that, Europeans will probably feel completely at home with the current speed.
Awesome job, guys! |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 254 |
This is SO GOOD! Cheers lads! |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
The speed of the music in this video works well.
https://youtu.be/SQPvA0OvR24
It appears the music speeds up from time to time.
Watching the video in the link provided, i never knew the Master System was quite that good.
Having never played a Sonic game, it will be good to give the C64 version a proper play through. |
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Alta
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 9 |
@Wile Coyote: The music in sonic speeds up when you pick up the speed boots! |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
Quoting hedningSaid that, Europeans will probably feel completely at home with the current speed.
hashtag notalleuropeans
It was clearly composed at NTSC tempo and just because they did a bad job porting the music in the 80s doesn't mean you couldn't do a better job today. I fully respect that there may be technical limitations preventing it, but if the songs have tempo settings that can be adjusted to compensate for the slower playback frequency that'd be a great option to add. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
@Alta I see. During the video, the opening level, something causes the music to either change slightly or speed up slightly. On picking up the boots, the music speeds up dramatically. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
@MagerValp Correct. European/UK in most cases tended to get a slowed down, squashed screen take on the US/Japanese release.
Sonic looks round on NTSC. Sonic looks slightly squashed on the PAL version. That is why i picked up a Japanese Sega Saturn (with stepdown converter) to experience full screen, full speed games. |
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Trurl
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 61 |
Quote: Quoting hedningSaid that, Europeans will probably feel completely at home with the current speed.
hashtag notalleuropeans
It was clearly composed at NTSC tempo and just because they did a bad job porting the music in the 80s doesn't mean you couldn't do a better job today. I fully respect that there may be technical limitations preventing it, but if the songs have tempo settings that can be adjusted to compensate for the slower playback frequency that'd be a great option to add.
So, an update with selectable music speed is already on the wishlist :) |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
So there's some video updates on Lemon.
Release date is 19th December.
Also running it on NTSC apparently gets the accurate music rendition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPtzJnC4g1Q&t=7s |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
Wow, didn't realize it was so close to release. Fun! |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 670 |
Where is it? :’-( … it’s past 6pm in Thailand and no sight of it :-( |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
It's out: Sonic the Hedgehog
Enjoy! |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 681 |
Kick ass! |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
I'm curious, how is copyright being dealt with? |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Quote: I'm curious, how is copyright being dealt with?
SEGA typically doesn't send its lawyers after non-commercial fan games. There's a whole festival of fan-made Sonic games (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRY8JLlE3VA) so I trust that they're smart enough to see that this is a labor of love and a homage, and not someone trying to make a quick buck. |
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PARALAX
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 30 |
Yeah, SEGA is going a different way than Nintendo, which does unofficial conversions such as "Super Mario Bros." get banned immediately. At least as long as no money is made with it. Although there would be some people who would pay for a boxed and cartridge version. :-)
Free music 4 free people - http://www.radio-paralax.de |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11377 |
Quote:SEGA typically doesn't send its lawyers after non-commercial fan games
They even were cool with us releasing homebrew Dreamcast stuff back then (some guy actually contacted us and congratulated us about it) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
I love it. It's fantastic. So fast, so smooth. |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
You just forget that you're playing Sonic on a C64. That's how good it is.
I just wonder how this achievement is ever going to be topped. There's plenty of other popular videogames that could have a C64 port (or improved on from the official versions).
I keep thinking a Zelda or a Pokemon port should be do-able at least... and the shadow of Doom looms large (might be possible to translate the SNES version, as it doesn't use the PC doom engine, and run it on the SuperCPU. The SNES source was released last year: https://github.com/RandalLinden/DOOM-FX) |
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zzarko
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 77 |
@Neo-Rio: No need to ask for SCPU Doom, as it already exists, made from original Doom source code:
https://scpu.amidog.se/doku.php?id=scpu:doom
Also, Wolfenstein 3D:
https://scpu.amidog.se/doku.php?id=scpu:wolf3d |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090 |
mrsid & veto now live: Sonic Q&A
https://www.twitch.tv/hayesmaker64 |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
Quote: @Neo-Rio: No need to ask for SCPU Doom, as it already exists, made from original Doom source code:
https://scpu.amidog.se/doku.php?id=scpu:doom
Also, Wolfenstein 3D:
https://scpu.amidog.se/doku.php?id=scpu:wolf3d
Yes, but that straight port of Doom was too slow to be playable - unlike Wolf 3D.
Sorry for thread-jacking... carry on... |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: You just forget that you're playing Sonic on a C64. That's how good it is.
I just wonder how this achievement is ever going to be topped. There's plenty of other popular videogames that could have a C64 port (or improved on from the official versions).
I keep thinking a Zelda or a Pokemon port should be do-able at least... and the shadow of Doom looms large (might be possible to translate the SNES version, as it doesn't use the PC doom engine, and run it on the SuperCPU. The SNES source was released last year: https://github.com/RandalLinden/DOOM-FX)
Working on Eye of the Beholder. Zelda, Monkey Island or Moonstone is maybe on my TODO. We'll see. Also must finish Pinball Dreams... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11377 |
But what about Wipeout and Tekken? |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: But what about Wipeout and Tekken?
:D :D :D |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
In the twitch stream I heard the game "Truxton" thrown around.
An actually competent vertical scrolling SHMUP on the C64 would be nice - although "Slap Flight" and "Terra Cresta" were pretty decent.
Personally I'd like to see "Twin Cobra" or "Raiden" with 2 player simultaneous - or a remake of "1942" done properly. Those are my favourites. |
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jcompton
Registered: Feb 2006
Posts: 70 |
Quoting Neo-RioI just wonder how this achievement is ever going to be topped. There's plenty of other popular videogames that could have a C64 port (or improved on from the official versions).
King's Quest. It's right up there with Prince of Persia on the "hey wait a sec, it was on the Apple IIe!" scale. |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Dune 1 should be doable on a stock c64. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Quote: Dune 1 should be doable on a stock c64.
You mean the Cryo Interactive game? |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
The other "elephant in the room" is Mortal Kombat.
And there were 8-bit versions of it on Master System, Game Gear, and Gameboy to work from. |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Quote: You mean the Cryo Interactive game?
yep. Dune II I do not think would work on a stock. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Quote: yep. Dune II I do not think would work on a stock.
Yeah, Dune 1 could be doable, if you wear out a few fullscreen graphicians... :) The game has tons of screens, and flying sequences, etc. Not exactly trivial, and you'll need a large cartridge. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting JackAsserAlso must finish Pinball Dreams...
Deal is still valid :P |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I dont think dune 1 is very doable, remember all those globe-map views. The map is essentially on a 3d sphere. Also the orni flying scenes would suffer horribly. Then the characters layered on top of backgrounds wouldnt work well in 160x200 and with the multicolor bitmap coloring limits. |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 490 |
Quote: Quoting Neo-RioI just wonder how this achievement is ever going to be topped. There's plenty of other popular videogames that could have a C64 port (or improved on from the official versions).
King's Quest. It's right up there with Prince of Persia on the "hey wait a sec, it was on the Apple IIe!" scale.
the issue is the bitmap mode. The drawing commands don't handle the 64 very well. However the VDCM mode which is 160x100 16 colours works fine, so all one would have to do is port the quill engine and done. You also have 128K for the larger adventures. |
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jcompton
Registered: Feb 2006
Posts: 70 |
Quoting oziphantomso all one would have to do is port the quill engine and done.
Am I missing something? Original King's Quest was AGI engine, not The Quill. |
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Neo-Rio
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 63 |
Oh well, there's always Sonic 2
...and Sonic & Tails 1 & 2 |
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Ksubi
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 87 |
Perhaps a Zool conversion could use the same engine? |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 462 |
Quote: Perhaps a Zool conversion could use the same engine?
-1, why convert Zool if there's a shitload of games that are actually good out there? ;) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Sorry to be that guy, but can you go over to Lemon64 or something to talk about your dream game ports to C-64? =)
As for the topic, i'd like to read something more about the technicalities.
Like, how much data is DMA'd on average, per video frame, min/max, to/from, in border or everywhere, etc. :) |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 432 |
Amazing port! Wondering if more games would be made for REU back in '80/90s would contribute to its popularity. Was the REU price the barrier? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting DiggerWas the REU price the barrier? Absolutely. RAM came at a premium back then.
A quick websearch brought this up:
"In my March 1987 issue of COMPUTE's Gazette, I found an ad for the 1750 in the back of the magazine. It cost $169, which is the equivalent of $375 in 2019 US dollars. For half a meg. As a comparison, that same vendor sold an entire C128 machine in 1987 for $239." |
