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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Event id #2636 : Crack Intro Music Competition 2017
After the geat success in 2013, the time has come for another Crack Intro Music Competition!
Several people have asked for it and finally it happens.
This time I have a skilled co-organizer with Jammer.
Competition runs from September 29, 2017, until October 29, 2017. So you have a full month to deliver your creations.
Please use this thread for questions, discussion and everything else concerning this competition.
THE RULES (same as in 2013, worked very well):
- max. playtime 1:00 min. (PAL playing speed), then repeat or fade.
- max. size: $1000 bytes (preferably located in memory at $1000-$2000)
- single speed only
- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)
- must be handed in as executable format .sid or .prg (might be embedded in .t64 or .d64)
- no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.
- Productions using the music might be released after the voting deadline. The voting should be focused on the music itself.
- the participating musics may not have been released or used in a public production before.
- multiple entries per musician allowed.
Deadline for entry submission is October 29, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
Voting closes one week later at November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
Voting platform is CSDb (with all disadvantages it may have), therefore entries have to be posted here.
Entries will be ranked by weighted average of CSDb votes. Entries with the same weighted average are ranked by their percentages of 10s, 9s, etc.
No prices to win, just the fame. May the best creation win! |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
I think the 1:00 minute is just too little for small tunes unless you want a lot of tiny loops.
1:10-20 would fit better with most speeds and sequences, at least for my own small intro tunes. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
also a crack intro tune must loop, wtf fade... |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting ScarzixI think the 1:00 minute is just too little for small tunes unless you want a lot of tiny loops.
1:10-20 would fit better with most speeds and sequences, at least for my own small intro tunes.
Over 80 tunes complied miraculously to that rule in 2013 :P It's a good exercise in being compact and to the point ;) You realize how exemplary crack tune works - most memorable theme is right at the start and later you just pour water. So... pour a little less of that water from your hefty jug, sir :D You're obviously allowed to make 2 subtunes - #1 under 1 minute and #2 being full length theme of your dreams (both have to fit in 4k, though).
Quoting Groepazalso a crack intro tune must loop, wtf fade...
Actually, you're right about that ;) I don't remember any entry from 2013 that didn't loop as a matter of fact. |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
I don't see the point of having length restrictions. The bytes is totally understandable if it should within a crack intro. But the length limitation doesn't make sense to me and I highly doubt that people thought about length of a tune back then (in the 80's when cracks were actually important) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Cracking the Old Way that's more or less how you stick to the compo rules :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
It's ridiculous but I have to add that rule:
- tune that covers someone else's composition, cannot be a procedural conversion of any kind - put some effort into process FFS
Case study here:
Poop Nukem 3D |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
Cool that you do this compo.
Not gonna take part, but probably rather leave this to real musicians.
Not so happy about 1:00 limit, i.e. what Scarzix sez. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Really great you guys are organizing another Crack Intro Music competition! Awesome.
I am struggling with this rule, tho:
- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)
May I ask what the point is?
First of all most of the classic crack intro tunes from back in the days sound like shit on a 8580, so it's not a way to keep things "real" - heavy differences have always been there.
Also, I don't see a proper scientific, ahem, way to judge whether a tune complies to that rule or not. An 8580 tune that sounds muffled on the old chip can be excused by the author's soft spot for lo-fi glitch, e.g. I am exaggerating here, obviously, but I hope you get my drift. Who judges what's "good" and what's not? Oh, yeah, the organizers, sure - but how can a participant possibly know what's in the realm of acceptable according to the organizer's taste? It's a very vague, nebulous rule one could easily do without imho.
That being said, I am looking forward to an ass kicking compo! Thanks, guys! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Sascha, I'm more than sure your great experience will allow you to tell tune sounding lofi on 6581 from the broken one ;) Same for the other way round - 6581 tune sounding thin on new one is rather common and acceptable but 6581 bassline using $00 cutoff, which in most cases is virtually inaudible on 8580, is not that nice. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
What about switching filtertypes? Produces clicks on the old fella, but does that automatically result in a disqualification? Where to draw the line? |
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uctumi
Registered: Jun 2015
Posts: 1 |
Will the voting be anonymous? How will the voting method be? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
"Voting platform is CSDb (with all disadvantages it may have), therefore entries have to be posted here.
Entries will be ranked by weighted average of CSDb votes. Entries with the same weighted average are ranked by their percentages of 10s, 9s, etc."
You just vote like for regular csdb releases :) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
What Scarzix said. Please make it at least +10 seconds!
For a real intro tune small size is what matters anyway. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
or cut the size in half and drop the length limit :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Put down your weapon, you have 20 seconds to comply.
If tune cannot deliver anything interesting below 1 minute, it's going to suck as crack music anyway. It's that simple ;) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
So what about filtertype switching then? :) Serious question. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
If it clicks that everyone's ears bleed from it, it's bugged most probably. Still, you know I'm not as sensitive to clicking as Søren is.
Can we proceed to serious issues? Rules are set in stone - they worked last time, they're going to work this time as well. I can promise I won't make a fuss about that damn 1:01 and will prevent Didi from being nazi about it. Period. Now, gimme a break. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Ok, but what about ...
:) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Can I cheat with the timer, having the 'second' update each 70 frames or so? |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
There's no on-screen timer, because graphics are not allowed. Right? |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting Linus
- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)
...
I don't see a proper scientific, ahem, way to judge whether a tune complies to that rule or not.
Entries could be disqualified if they explicitly state the preferred SID model somewhere.
We can also adapt the judging process, in the spirit of the rule, like this: We all randomise the SID model before listening to each tune. Half the people will judge it based on how it sounds on 6581, half based on how it sounds on 8580. If it sounds great on both, the average score will be higher. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
or just randomize the votes alltogether :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Jeez. It's not about SID flag. It's about not sounding like muffled diarrhea on 6581 (and believe - all regular MSL stuff, for example, would sound like this on 6581). Don't worry, LFT, you have least to fear in this respect ;) In practice it's mostly about taking more classical approach where to put filter and where not to. Tune DOESN'T have to sound identical on both chips. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Yeah, but whhhhyyyyyy?! :) I don't wanna touch that old fella :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
thats what she said |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting Groepazthats what she said
 |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 76 |
This thread is gold, you guys are cracking me up (no pun intended). :D |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
Quote:I can promise I won't make a fuss about that damn 1:01 and will prevent Didi from being nazi about it.
ROFL xD |
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Xiny6581
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 73 |
Awesome... :) Will do my magic 6581+8580 and attend with magic too ;D |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
So SID detection in player is the way to go - aka we now know that composers with that option will be able to make the best results.
Think I might go the oppersite way: Do I get + points for NOT using filters then? :-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
People vote, they'll decide ;) |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
Mehhh, haven't ckecked all posts here but do we have a tolerance of 1 or 2 seconds? And must the loop be from the beginning or can i loop just the last bars of that damn longplay track?!? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Two entries from Scarzix are about 1:01.5 playtime. I'd personally pass them as those are great tunes. I hope Didi agrees with me. Still, try not to push it, really ;) |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
Feel free to remove my entries if I violate the restrictions too much. I use speed 02 (aka 3 frames) and the sequence lengths gives me that time. It's not "on purpose" to be against the limitations, but thats what 50fps at speed 02 gives me ... alternatively, I have to make them with CIA timers and then they probably wont fit any crack intro... :-/
Besides that, they are smaller than the max size in bytes and works on both SIDs :-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Sometimes it's about compromises in composition to meet the requirements - phrase played once not twice etc. No, I don't really want to disqualify decent stuff, especially it's on the verge ;)
Ok, official compromise is that we will turn a blind eye for 2 seconds overtime as it helps sometimes with maintaining regular structure, looping etc. But cross that and scissors go straight for your dicks :D |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
We agreed to have a tolerance of max. 2 seconds, but that's all. Please do not probe this limit too hard. |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
\o/ !!! |
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Mekong
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 6 |
Have to agree with what other guys said, the only constraint in such a compo should be filesize. That's how I've always picked tunes for use in my releases. If one is skilled enough to cram in a solo that shows up after 2 minutes, the better. Loop/fade should not be a demand either, sometimes you may want the intro to hit and run. It sure is cool that in 2013 people complied with these rules, but some of the most legendary introtunes that have actually been used by crackers, from eg. Hubbard or Laxity, wouldn't have qualified here, which is silly. |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
IMO there is no (should not be) tech difference between "Crack Intro Music" or "Any other Music", just taste/mood matters ;)
For a good music I will spend additional bytes in intro and try to find space for it in mem no matter what. "Intro music" idea without any restrictions should give enough info "how it should look like for me". |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
And why "- single speed only" !? /o\ |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Rules are set for this compo. Any discussion may influence upcoming compos, but not the running one.
At least european cracking groups always tried to keep their cracks as short as possible. That's why the size of the intro also mattered and they tried to make it cool but short as well. There are lots of small intromusics far below the limit of this compo.
Single speed: Usually crack intros do hot have rastertime to waste therefore use single speed music.
Good sounding on both SID models is a challenge for the composers, accept it or leave it. Some demos have dedicated music for both SID models but there is no space for this in a tiny little intro. |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
Submitted my first entry 'RasterTime'. Made in Cheesecutter V2.8, and hopefully it should fit to the music compo rules :)
Short 'n sweet. I hope :) |
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Magnar
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 61 |
- no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.
This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.
Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...
And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!
Please take this rule away. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Hmm, indeed "blank screen" would have been a less ambiguous rule. Or "static text only, using the ROM font". Or SID format. Those are some ideas for next year's compo.
On the topic of length limit vs. just a filesize limit, I think that a "tiny music compo" (with a blank screen) would be fun. But that would be a coder's compo, or possibly a toolchain compo. I think that the 1-minute limit is a good challenge for musicians, and clearly a lot of good stuff is coming out of it.
I actually think it's more interesting to have a strict 1:00 limit (because it is so frustratingly close to 1:01.29, which is 3*8 bars in tempo 4). It helps us to break free from familiar molds.
But, well, maybe we need two compos for looping tunes. A 1-minute compo, and a filesize compo. And then maybe it is the latter that should be called a "crack intro music" compo. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting lftit's more interesting to have a strict 1:00 limit (because it is so frustratingly close to 1:01.29, which is 3*8 bars in tempo 4). It helps us to break free from familiar molds. What about tunes with different track lengths, then? Say, voice 1 looping at 1:00 sharp, voice 2 a bit before that, and voice 3 again a bit earlier? Technically it loops at 1:00, but the whole tune can go into interesting variations as it goes on. Stuff like this has been done, but not often, and possibly not to perfection. :) |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
Quote: - no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.
This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.
Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...
And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!
Please take this rule away.
I've now had people complaining to me about my tune because "no demo effects allowed!"
I really didn't see that one coming, didn't think anyone considered displaying the code and data onscreen to show the memory usage an "intro-like presentation" - to me it's more like using raster bars to show the raster time usage.
So wait, does this mean that in my next demo I can show the music code on the screen for a bit and it will shut up all those who complain about my demos having no effects...? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
It's a silly interpretation of that rule.
And personally i think that visual presentation has little to no effect on voting outcome. Especially if it's not an actual demo effect or anything obviously going for visual impact. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: - no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.
This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.
Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...
And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!
Please take this rule away.
Me using psid64 instead of my own (dis-)player (with my spider-sprite and song title scrolling) in this compo is *because* of that rule. |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Quoting MermaidSo wait, does this mean that in my next demo I can show the music code on the screen for a bit and it will shut up all those who complain about my demos having no effects...?
Certain people will always find something to complain about, don't you worry. |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
Suggestion for next Crack intro compo.
Let the origanizers produce 1 or more "templates" for crack intros. Where the logo is the name of the compo and the scroll text contains the song title, composer and song details.
Then let the composers choose which of the templates to compose for and then we have a lot of similar "intros" where we can see how the music feels with that particular intro.
... or as suggested, we could also just go "black" but that makes some really boring screenshots for CSDB.dk :-)
Also if we specify it should sound good on 6581, please lets us agree on WHICH REVISION we are talking about. :-)
I still love the idea of this compo, so dont get me wrong here.
I might even have more tunes up my sleves, if people start to vote on tunes. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
this compo clearly needs more rules, its not silly enough yet =) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: this compo clearly needs more rules, its not silly enough yet =)
Haha!
You're an ass, but we tend to agree a lot ;) Damn, what does that say about me? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting LinusYou're an ass, but we tend to agree a lot ;) Damn, what does that say about me?
Sascha, you're an ass. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Linus: sing along loud and proud! |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 251 |
I demand, the winner must also make (or produce) an outstanding cracktro. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Rules drama? Obey and submit! :)
oh btw I'm pleased to join the compo ;)
www.c64power.com |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Regarding rules how are you going to resolve issue in regard of fame/namevoting/number of votes?
case:
Drax's tune has been uploaded less than 24h ago and he got 12 votes, my tune - some 26h ago and only 2? ;)
www.c64power.com |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
Drax' tune wipes the floor with all other releases anyway (though there are a lot of good and even quite a bunch excellent tunes among them), tune would not have scored much differently anonymously imho, no matter what you do about voting system ;) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
With all respect to maestro Drax, I beg to differ ;) I enjoyed his 2013 cracks more and I hope he goes at least for hattrick this time again :) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
most people just do some rule/vote whining because it belongs to each compo, let the few who seriously complain sulk on. there are sooo many great tunes, I don't care so much about how you fake the vote results in the ending anyway :P
PS: "anonymous" compo would not make much sense, as experienced listeners would know more than half of artists anyway either by style or even by player routine |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting TheRykI don't care so much about how you fake the vote results in the ending anyway :P
WAT? Now that was some shit, sir, I hope you didn't mean orgs' actions. You better take it back :P |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
Honk if you demand satisfaction, Sir! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
du bist mir so ein honk! |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 225 |
RAf, I think it could go both ways or perhaps not even matter whether I am known or not. I simply just care about people voting according to what they think of the music and not for me being drax. I thought of entering under a pseudonym but I believe people would have spotted my style anyways. Perhaps some people would also compare my tune to my previous ones and judge it from that perspective rather than comparing to the other tunes in the compo. One could also make a rule saying that musician rated among the 10 highest in csdb shouldn't attend? I attend because I kinda like composing short tunes due to laziness 😉 |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Raf, name is one thing - you can't help it. Second thing is people usually don't want to give bad ratings and if entry doesn't meet their expectations, they simply pass. Or they are plainly ambivalent about it which results in the same action. You're probably more than aware that your effort is not entirely on par with Drax (but pretty decent compared to your earlier works which reflected in my evaluation) ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
and you didnt even make the first HONK style sid in existance! |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
I have a philosophical question:
I started developing a tune in GT with settings to 6581 and do my filters there, but actually don't own a real 6581 and still like the outcome "personally" more on my 8580 (which is the case for almost *all* 6581 tunes except those with cutoff 0). Did I make a 6581 or a 8580 tune? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
8580. Disqualified! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting Groepazand you didnt even make the first HONK style sid in existance!
xD
I'll reiterate on it later but now off to Blade Runner 2049 ;) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: 8580. Disqualified!
Well. That answer brings up the next question: are SID tunes done in an emulator really SID tunes? ;-) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
The real question is are SID tunes even music?
"Crack Intro MUSIC competition 2017", huh? "An exercise in futility 2017" would be a more appropriate title.
Thanks, Jammer, you HONK! :D |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: Raf, name is one thing - you can't help it. Second thing is people usually don't want to give bad ratings and if entry doesn't meet their expectations, they simply pass. Or they are plainly ambivalent about it which results in the same action. You're probably more than aware that your effort is not entirely on par with Drax (but pretty decent compared to your earlier works which reflected in my evaluation) ;)
Jammer, you should be politician I think ;)
Actually I didn't take voting here seriously right from the start but I was concerned more about *number of votes* between those "famous" and "unknown" than name/friend voting, you seem to connect that together though. I'm fully aware that I'm not on the top at SIDding but I find it fun anyway.
www.c64power.com |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Little trouble in the meantime:
Shades of Grey
Guys wanted to be nice and used my tune. While I feel really flattered, according to rules my tune has to be put out of the compo :/ |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
New strategy: Secretly make a musicdisk of all the tunes in the compo, then release it just before the deadline. Also release another compo entry (that isn't in the musicdisk). It will win on walkover. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Jammer: Leave it in. It's not your fault. Personally I thought this rule is/was about not re-releasing already used stuff in the first place. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I've already put it out of compo for time being but I'm waiting for opinions ;) |
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Steel
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 6 |
Quote: I've already put it out of compo for time being but I'm waiting for opinions ;)
Come on this is ridiculous. PUT THAT DAMN TUNE BACK IN.
As far as i see it makes your tune already a winner if someone so desperately wants to use it in an INTRO... oh well it was a competition for crack intro music right ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
jammer should be disqualified alltogether. BRING OUT THE PITCHFORKS! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
It's a trick so Jammer can add another tune to the compo without feeling stupid for flooding the compo with his own entries.
It's also quite a clever idea how to remove the competition. Someone should use Drax's tune in intro asap.
*trollface* |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
p.s.: srsly. Tune should stay in the compo. Hokuto intro should be disqualified! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3193 |
HF crack should be deleted from everyone's HD and the entry postdated to $end_of_compo_date+1
=) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: jammer should be disqualified alltogether. BRING OUT THE PITCHFORKS!
PITCHFORKS?! Calm down! A life time ban from CSDB should suffice. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
thats not fun :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Groepaz surely meant Pitchfork Magazine and now I have to tell, I'm really honoured! :D |
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
Jammer just stop fooling around and bring back your tune to the compo!
It's really silly as your tune was firstly released in the compo and that what counts!
Or.....it is well managed marketing around the tune as competition is tough ;) |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
We need a voting committee with at least 100 people to get fair results... ;-) |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
next tracker compo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvK83xglHGw |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 225 |
Jammer put that tune back in - it isn't your fault. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Ok, if you guys say so... I'd probably regret throwing it out sooner or later :) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Well done, marketing queen, well done! :) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
damn after so much great music you can't blame the notoriously lazy musicians... THEY can kick coders and crackers asses like "We delivered. Now make new intro and btw go do some decent crack ffs" :D |
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Steel
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 6 |
Quote: Well done, marketing queen, well done! :)
LOOOOOOLLLLL |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
Jammer, put your tune back in. The rules has been adjusted before (thanks btw) and secondly, I would personally be flattered if people found my crack tunes good enough for their intro's - so enjoy the fame my friend.
About 100 votes or more. I have a suggestion:
1) a PUBLIC vote system, but votes shouldn't be shown at all until the compo was over.
2) all entries without names...
3) people who wants to vote could sign up for being part of the commitie... (but this would also force them to give every single tune a vote from 1-10 - if not voted on, it would automatically become 9 or something... :-) )
So.. do I have to code that website myself to get that system? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Imho redundant bureaucracy and complication for such a simple compo but it's cool you want to devote your precious time :P I sense it would gather very few volunteers, as any kind of external signup is unecessary time and effort for lazy bastards :D Didi handled voting manly in 2013, still feel free to hit him in that case ;) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Agreed, this platform is not perfect, some say it's just a database. Despite that, it gathers more votes than other vote-systems that have been tried. Best of the bad. |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
IMO it wouldn't matter if we get more votes in total, let's say at least 100 what should be possible. Downvotes wouldn't have that big impact and the result will be more realistic and fair.
You should also consider not allowing any votes with fake accounts or from people that never ever contributed something to the 64 scene.
Also ensure that a single person is doing votes for all entries and not only to a few ones for using and accepting it for the final calculation. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
100 votes? Yay. I think the number of entries need to be a bit lower for that. For instance by increasing the max play time to 2 minutes, so we have half the amount of entries <-
hardcore number cracking. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
everyone who votes should do crack first! |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Using CSDb for the votes has been criticised a lot in the past, but it turned out to be the best and easiest alternative. You click the entry, listen to the music, just vote for it and go ahead. Most people are too lazy to get into a separate voting system, send messages or email or whatever. Past showed that intended downvotes had no big influence on the result of the compos I organized by reaching about 30 votes per entry. That is not much to achieve. So let's go for it... |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Downvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
or only count the votes, the entry with most votes wins! |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
Quoting Groepazor only count the votes, the entry with most votes wins!
Hehe, nice. What about multiple winner awards with different calculations?
- Winner Award by/with CSDB voting system
- Winner Award by/with amount of public votes only
- Winner Award by/with amount of hidden votes only
- Winner Award by/with amount of votes
- Winner Award by/with most downloads
- Winner Award by/with number of comments
- Winner Award by/with for being in the top (10)
- Winner Award by/with most downvotes
... =:-] |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting hedningDownvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved. This. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
the annual voting discussion? =) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3193 |
-1 votes for having whined on forum about rules, this should teach to stfu and/or don't compete if rules are not accepted. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
-1 bonus for any occurrence of "anonymous" "downvote" "problem" etc |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting hedningDownvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved.
Interesting. I don't think that every one who votes lower than e.g. a 5 is down voting:
I give scores <= 5 for all entries that do not sounds good on both SID models. I do not call this down voting. It's quite simple. There are two SID models. If it sounds crap on one SID, then the max score is 5. I rarely give out maximum scores. So, if the tune is sounds crap on a 6581 but the composition is *really* great, I will give a 5. Else it will mostly be a 3 or 4.
I use the compo rules as a scoring rubic and for me the most important ones are the 1 minute time limit and that the entry should sound good on both SID models.
Voting/scoring is serious business! ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
i gave low scores for one or two tunes which apparently other people liked a lot. is that downvoting? i dont think so? |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
@Didi & Jammer: although you allowed "multiple" entries feel free to remove any tunes by me from the compo if you think it's too much. I just like beeing creative, trying thinks out within the compo limits - but don't want to piss off people by compo flooding :-) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465 |
care to enlighten me why my latest entry 'shit olympics' got removed, not just from the compo, but from the database, even? |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: care to enlighten me why my latest entry 'shit olympics' got removed, not just from the compo, but from the database, even?
See Molochs last oneliner. I guess they are removing now releases without prg file... |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
Quote:- must be handed in as executable format .sid or .prg (might be embedded in .t64 or .d64)
OR! |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2928 |
CSDb requires an executable, compo rules don't override that requirement. Take the extra two minutes and convert your .sid file to a .prg before uploading. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting MolochCSDb requires an executable, compo rules don't override that requirement. Take the extra two minutes and convert your .sid file to a .prg before uploading.
We'll take care of it and I get the policy but, please, don't destroy the compo. If tunes already acquired votes and comments, you distort the results. Compo is based entirely on csdb as a platform hence tunes and votes are not backed up anywhere. And, please, restore Randall's latest entry and whatever compo tunes you've hidden by a chance. Prgs will be added for sure. Thanks.
Quoting spider-jfeel free to remove any tunes by me from the compo if you think it's too much.
I see no reason in punishing you for creativity xD |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Add executables to begin with, as priority #1 file - problem solved. .sid file is just a bonus, that should be deleted the day HVSC mirrors it.
And guys: take screenshots, and make them look good. I'm dead tired making executables and making screenshots for lazy people. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting hedningAnd guys: take screenshots, and make them look good.
Sure, will do. On the other hand, I do my own screenshots with palette carefuly prepared according to moderately saturated Colodore scheme (not more saturated than usual 1802 monitor) and see from time to time, someone replaces it with bland old Pepto screenshot :P |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Magical csdb elfs. They exist. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Quote: Quoting hedningAnd guys: take screenshots, and make them look good.
Sure, will do. On the other hand, I do my own screenshots with palette carefuly prepared according to moderately saturated Colodore scheme (not more saturated than usual 1802 monitor) and see from time to time, someone replaces it with bland old Pepto screenshot :P
I meant screenshots with artefacts lite CRT emulation, or stuff like that. :)
Worst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting hedningWorst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them.
Because helpful admins in fact do that for everyone. And even if screenshots are uploaded, admins make better ones. So user thinks - fuck it, let them do it properly. It's a bit like thinking of overly caring mother - why doesn't my kid clean up after himself or isn't enough self-reliant. If she only knew the real answer :P Rightie? :D
I suggest changing default no-screenshot gif into 'PLEASE UPLOAD FUCKING SCREENSHOT' or dirty cock pic to put uploader into shame. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3193 |
nice idea jammer =) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I cared to prepare delightful template for that event:
 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
+1 for cock pic |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3193 |
excellent choice!1 I wish I could be such good painter myself!2 |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Your Fuuuuumbo is an excellent basis for everything! <3 |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Compo rules will be adjusted next time to fit CSDb rules. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Quote: Quoting hedningWorst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them.
Because helpful admins in fact do that for everyone. And even if screenshots are uploaded, admins make better ones. So user thinks - fuck it, let them do it properly. It's a bit like thinking of overly caring mother - why doesn't my kid clean up after himself or isn't enough self-reliant. If she only knew the real answer :P Rightie? :D
I suggest changing default no-screenshot gif into 'PLEASE UPLOAD FUCKING SCREENSHOT' or dirty cock pic to put uploader into shame.
Yeah. So we need to go full Groepaz on their asses. No prob. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote: I cared to prepare delightful template for that event:
use it already :=) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Nah, the palet is wrong. |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 76 |
Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D
Thanks for listening. Gotta admit, I have not yet done that (only fugue by lft), but will do so this weekend. Comment time. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D
Your tune is still missing though. Come on, join in! :-) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Right, miss some others too. Just sayin, 2 more days to dust off that old sketch. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Today is the last day to submit crakctro themes! Still few hours to grace us with your precious work ;) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Wonder if all puns for the word crack have been used yet. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
GONG! Entry submission is closed now!
Now check the entries and place your votes. Hopefully many users will vote. The more the better to get a fair result.
Voting closes at Sunday November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm) CET. |
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D
Totally agree with Stinsen! What an awesome compo! Didi and Jammer, you have my full respect! Thank you, even tho it cost me some sleepless nights ;)
Just a pity that Stinsen didnt participate :( |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
When voting please keep the purpose in mind it should have been made for.
84 entries to vote for and only one week to do. So hurry up. ;) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: Totally agree with Stinsen! What an awesome compo! Didi and Jammer, you have my full respect! Thank you, even tho it cost me some sleepless nights ;)
Just a pity that Stinsen didnt participate :(
Uhm, why? ;) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
You may also use the real SID recordings made by Mr. Ammo (Thanks a lot!) to help you with voting.
https://goo.gl/m7oBBG |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
@didi
thanks I'd prefer to listen on my real hardware. please, please somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.
TIA
oh btw. did I mention this is great compo?
thanks didi & jammer |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting Carrionplease somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.
Ok, here comes bulk archive with compo C64 executables:
DOWNLOAD! |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
thanks Kamil
you rule!
time to go to basement to do some serious SID listening |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting DidiYou may also use the real SID recordings made by Mr. Ammo (Thanks a lot!) to help you with voting.
https://goo.gl/m7oBBG
Just now I finished recording the last few tunes and uploaded them. I threw out all tunes outside the compo to save some precious disk space. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Quote: Quoting Carrionplease somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.
Ok, here comes bulk archive with compo C64 executables:
DOWNLOAD!
Great! Thanx! Here they are on a d81, and three d64:s, for those who like it that way: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pczlmzj7967ocvj/CrackMusicCompo2017.z.. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
Quote: GONG! Entry submission is closed now!
Now check the entries and place your votes. Hopefully many users will vote. The more the better to get a fair result.
Voting closes at Sunday November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm) CET.
As this date does not exist in my calendar, do I have time till 6th of Nov, 23:59:59 (MONday) to do final votes or will deadline be tonight (SUNday, 5th)? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Didi definitely meant TODAY but put wrong date ;) As voting started on 30th of October, today is the last day to vote, without doubt. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
uh will see if I find time, guess about 30 tunes left to vote |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
So far Didi is kind of unavailable and hasn't read my PMs so it's possible voting will last till tomorrow's end, who knows. I don't want to check votes all by myself, honestly :D |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Voting will close TOMORROW midnight as announced in first post. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244 |
wonderful \o/
thx! |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Just managed to check and vote for all by myself short before deadline. ;) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 487 |
Final results are fixed. Thanks to all participants for this great competition again! |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Thank you too, Didi (and of course also Jammer) for organizing. I guess number of my entries already shows that I had a lot of fun participating.
I also enjoyed literally *all* entries. Great job, fellow musicians and noise makers :-)
My suggestions / wishlist for the future would be:
- raise time limit to ~1:10 to include 1:02 and 1:04 "pop music sequence" loop points
- drop "no graphics" rule and allow everyone to use their [groups] standard player. As you can see in the download stats most people only listen to the SIDs anyway.
- remove fade option from playtime rule, introtunes should loop
- consider to split the compo into 4K and 2K categories
But of course you can already count me in the next time with the same ruleset :-) |
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Toggle
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 32 |
Thank you - Didi and Jammer - for this awesome compo! Congrats to Drax for winning this thing again! You know it's been a crazy good compo when two of my faves (among many others) come in on #54 and #55 each with a great 8.0 rating!
Thanks to all my fellow SID-lovers for your awesome releases! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Again, that was hell of a compo! Kudos and much thanks to all participants and voters! We'll surely refine on ruleset next time but don't expect revolution :P |
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aNdy
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 41 |
Thanks Didi and Jammer.
Congrats to Drax.
Super kudos to *everyone* who took part. Great tunes! |
