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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Release id #40365 : 25 x Turbo
Does anyone know the origin of this code...
Info:
Turbo at $e000-$e88d. ($e406 called by the small init at $014b)
Trackbuffer $e900-$fdff.
Transfer decode buffer $fe00-$ffff.
Quick analysis:
Init:
* There is no init except setting up the load vector.
* The load vector points to $014b.
* The routine at $014b copies some kernal routines ($ed00-$f0ff) to
ram under kernal and then jumps to $e406.
* At $e406 the filename is checked for '$' and device numbers below 8,
at which it skips out to $f4a6 for normal load.
* $e42c, print searching...
* $e433 loader init starts.
Loader:
* $e457 copy bootstrap to drive
At $e817 the drive code is stored, pre-M-W-encoded. Each command is
terminated with a $ff marker, and the last command is terminated by
an additional $ff marker.
This code is just a small bootstrap ($0706-$075f) waiting for the
rest of the code.
* $e489 copy the real drive code by high speed transfer.
Copies the code $e000-$e405 (inclusive) to $0300-$0705, resulting in
code from $0300-$075f.
The drive then jumps to $04af.
* $e4b2 speed load the entire track 18 for fast file finding.
* $e4d1 find the file with wild cards.
* $e529 file found, t/s to $b4/$b5
* $e542 print loading
* $e549 check for invalid track. Luxury! smile
* $e55c send track number
* $e566 load entire track.
* $e56d sector out of range for track?
* $e573 load sector data from track buffer until the track changes,
after each loop call $e59c to flush the buffer to memory.
* $e593 file loaded, flush buffer by calling $e59c a last time.
* $e599 exit out, done.
Load entire track at $e725:
* $e725, initialize sector count, set number of sectors to $a3. Start
on sector 0.
* $e742, call $e61f to get one block in two halves from drive to
$fe00/$ff00 and merge it into $e900+sector number using the two 32
byte tables at $e7ab and $e7cb. Checksum to $d7.
* $e748 add interleave 3.
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
wasnt 16x the max ? afaik only warp goes beyond that. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
I haven't _measured_ the speed of this. It was named 25 x turbo, but it is very fast.
If it's faster than 16x, I guess the coder didn't know about that limit. ;)
Could it be the work of Dietz/Eikemeier/Joppich/Tempelmann?
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
I had a 30x turbo that I believe said something like "Imported by Odenwall" or something, can't remember.
(and I don't know if it actually was 30x, but it was fast.)
It's used in our Bugs Bunny demo though.
Bugs Bunny |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Slower fast loaders are 6x speed, the average is 10x and the really fast ones are 15x. Without extra hardware it's quite impossible to be any faster.
I guess "25x" is a result of wrong measurements.
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Arghh.. now I clicked on the 25x turbo URL, and saw that it's the same turbo. :)
But it was called 30x turbo on the disk we got it... :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
The "Imported by BKS Odenwald"-loader is just a text-modified "Most Access II" from Oliver Stiller.
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Slower fast loaders are 6x speed, the average is 10x and the really fast ones are 15x. Without extra hardware it's quite impossible to be any faster.
I guess "25x" is a result of wrong measurements.
Or just bragging by someone spreading it. :)
Anyway, I want to know the origin of it...
EDIT: @Graham: Ah! :) Could you add it here? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@tlr: Get an AMICA Paint original disk, the loader is used there. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: @tlr: Get an AMICA Paint original disk, the loader is used there.
I found a couple of Most Access II+ downloads which are similar in some ways, but very different in others.
I haven't found an original Amica paint disk yet, does anyone have a link?
Anyway, the ones I found automatically loaded something when started, so I guess Most Access II was not a loader intended for standalone use.
Did someone (BKS?) standalonify (is that a word? :) the BKS version?
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Back in the days loaders were simply ripped out of other productions. Nobody cared where the loader came from since it was not really considered to be part of the demo, it was just a way to keep loading times low. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Back in the days loaders were simply ripped out of other productions. Nobody cared where the loader came from since it was not really considered to be part of the demo, it was just a way to keep loading times low.
Yes, I know. (pink floyd, GI Joe, etc...)
But still, I'm curious, is the BKS loader simply a change of text, or is it modified to be a standalone loader?
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
most access turbo was a brilliant piece of software. it was my day and night fastloader from the second I've found it. it loaded small files so fast that I havent noticed any disk activity, and was really strange. anyone can add something to this behaviour ? it really puzzled me back then. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Just to be clear: I'm not saying anybody is wrong about anything here, I'm just trying to do a historical trace back... :)
Back in the days, like Graham puts it, I had only the BKS-version, and had never heard of Most Access. Yodelking also had the BKS-version obviously, so maybe this is the version that got spread the most in Sweden?
I added Stiller as coder to the entry btw.
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
To me it's quite obvious that the loader was ripped ouf of a production which was "imported by BKS Odenwald". You didn't always rip the loaders out of their original products, you know :) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I have that loader but its called 1000000000000x Turbo
:)
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: To me it's quite obvious that the loader was ripped ouf of a production which was "imported by BKS Odenwald". You didn't always rip the loaders out of their original products, you know :)
Surprisingly I didn't think of that. :)
I've always assumed that BKS imported the turbo only.
That production will probably turn up eventually... :)
@graham: Is Most Access II+ an improved rewrite of this then? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
the + version must have some important upgrades like different colors :P :D |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: the + version must have some important upgrades like different colors :P :D
Well, the code is completely different... |
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FMan
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2003
Posts: 66 |
Quote: Just to be clear: I'm not saying anybody is wrong about anything here, I'm just trying to do a historical trace back... :)
Back in the days, like Graham puts it, I had only the BKS-version, and had never heard of Most Access. Yodelking also had the BKS-version obviously, so maybe this is the version that got spread the most in Sweden?
I added Stiller as coder to the entry btw.
I may be able to offer some info since this is the turbo I had at the time and used in some demos. In fact, this is the very fast loader you will also find on my Retro Replay ROM. :D
I had this fast loader known as "30x warp" and it was in fact a standalone turbo that RUNs, prints the encrypted-stored IMPORTED BY BKS ODENWALD text in reverse and returns to BASIC direct mode.
I always thought the *turbo* was imported by BKS Odenwald, but was at the time fascinated about this and would have liked to know more about the details, so I'm not sure about that aspect though.
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 363 |
Quote: Slower fast loaders are 6x speed, the average is 10x and the really fast ones are 15x. Without extra hardware it's quite impossible to be any faster.
I guess "25x" is a result of wrong measurements.
<Krill> Hold my beer... Transwarp V0.64 |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2970 |
Quoting DeeKay<Krill> Hold my beer... Transwarp V0.64 To be fair, it's about standard-format fastloading (Vorpal/Warp*25/Heureka-Sprint existed).
Current reference as of this post would be Mafiosino Trackloader V2.1 which makes about 19x. =) |
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Trurl
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 61 |
Did the BKS Odenwald/25x Turbo and Most Access have anything in common codewise with Gigaload? IIRC all three were roughly the same speed and back in the 80's they were the only ones in that ballpark. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Did the BKS Odenwald/25x Turbo and Most Access have anything in common codewise with Gigaload? IIRC all three were roughly the same speed and back in the 80's they were the only ones in that ballpark.
The BKS Odenwald version and gigaload implementations seem very different. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: @tlr: Get an AMICA Paint original disk, the loader is used there.
Did this loader ever surface? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
I think I found it, from coll\bugjam\Box103\disk082a.d64+disk082b.d64
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ccceit14rnnzig/amicapaint.zip?dl=0
the file "MOST-ACCESS C000" in side A is exactly as Most-Access II+ and has nothing to do with 25xturbo, no matches in code. Some more evidence is needed to prove this was by Oliver Stiller, other than "trust me bro" |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: I think I found it, from coll\bugjam\Box103\disk082a.d64+disk082b.d64
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ccceit14rnnzig/amicapaint.zip?dl=0
the file "MOST-ACCESS C000" in side A is exactly as Most-Access II+ and has nothing to do with 25xturbo, no matches in code. Some more evidence is needed to prove this was by Oliver Stiller, other than "trust me bro"
Exactly. The claim that "Most Access II" on an original Amica Paint disk is the BKS Odenwald branded turbo is unsubstantiated as no turbo called "Most Access II" has surfaced so far.
I've seen only "Most Access II+" and this "MOST-ACCESS C000" on the Amica Paint disk, and those variants are completely different.
Good find! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11365 |
Quote:Some more evidence is needed to prove this was by Oliver Stiller, other than "trust me bro"
I don't quite understand what exactly that refers to - but Amica Paint (and Most Access) is from 64er Sonderheft 'Graphics', pretty sure it mentions who made what. Perhaps later versions were also published in 64er. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Quote:Some more evidence is needed to prove this was by Oliver Stiller, other than "trust me bro"
I don't quite understand what exactly that refers to - but Amica Paint (and Most Access) is from 64er Sonderheft 'Graphics', pretty sure it mentions who made what. Perhaps later versions were also published in 64er.
This thread is about 25 X Turbo. Graham claims it's by Oliver Stiller in post #7. It may be so, but there's no real evidence of that so far. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
most access was my fave turbo back in the days. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2970 |
Is it just me or is "Most-Access" one of the worst names ever conceived? =) |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Still no sign of the origins of this. I'm still wondering. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11365 |
Did you check 64er disks? |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: Did you check 64er disks?
I think I tried a bit a long time ago but couldn't find a comprehensive collection of them all.
EDIT:
Searched a bit again and eventually found somewhere that Amica Paint was originally published in 64'er Sonderheft 27 (1988).
The disk can be found here: https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commodore-c64-magazines-d64/64-er..
This disk contains the loader MOST-ACCESS C000, which surprise, is very similar to the other MOST-ACCESSes I've seen. It is however completely different to the BKS imported one discussed here so I find Graham's claim dubious. He does claim it's a text edit of MOST-ACCESS II though, so I guess that loader may be available somewhere else? |
