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2006-03-22 14:18

Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639

Release id #30240 : Reel Fishing Preview

Discussion is better left to the forums, I guess, so here goes.

Apparently some clarifications are in order. I have nothing against PTV at all, and I'm not involved in the cracking scene. I do enjoy a bit of game development myself.

However, I can't understand what problems PTV have with seeing cracks of their games on CSDb, especially since PTV are "not commercial" (according to MacGyver, at least). And even if they were, no sane person could believe that today's C64 games are sold less because of cracking.

Having your game cracked is an advantage really, since it increases the chance that people will play it, find that they like it, and place an order. But apparently this is not how PTV see it, and disagreeing with them entails having their coders throw fits and leave, which supposedly is going to "kill the scene". Bah.

... 30 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2006-03-23 05:01

Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893

Interesting.

2006-03-23 06:27

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Sure.

But if people code a game on C64 and release it, they can expect it to be released, they know it will be released. Why make complaints when you knew it even before coding it?

2006-03-23 06:57

iopop

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317

This is off topic but has to be said.

The target audience for the oldie cracking scene is not the scene as we are part of, they just clash into each other. but gamers, real gamers that doesnt give a crap about who really made the crack or who was sleeping with whom back in the 80ies.. What they do care about is that when they spend 5 hours on a game it sure as hell wont crash.

When groups stopped to care about the games from Richard Bayliss, early 2002. He created his own fake lables to release it with, most notably Blazon. Sadly, all those releases are removed from CSDb today. Would have been great for historical purposes if they were still here.

2006-03-23 07:26

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

I have all the Blazon releases. Perhaps I should upload them. Interesting point made Iopop.

Perhaps those cracking groups releasing new games should just quit altogether? Maybe that is needed?

This thread will amount to nothing, other than the expression of opinions. Trying to stop something that has started since 1982 will be a difficult feat to achieve.

2006-03-23 09:22

Style
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 17

Cracking old games - adding trainers, small filesize, docs, loaderscreen etc.... I can dig that. If I play a game, I look for NOS or REM releases first. Quality still rules, and if you crack something simply so there is a quality release of it, I think that is very cool. This isnt a new concept, cracker groups have been re-releasing games in fixed and quality versions since the early 90s. There's still a butt-load of games out there that lack a nice version.

Cracking previews - if it is likely to be released as a full version in the future, dont bother cracking it. If its abandoned, do it - I wanna see what it was gonna be like. If someone is currently working on the game, and has made it known that they dont want their stuff spread, you need a bullet if you crack/spread it. This includes uploading previews to csdb, wdr Im looking at you.

Cracking ptv releases - Ive heard the arguments about cracks not affecting sales etc, but at the end of the day the scene is now small enough where if you are asked not to crack stuff, you should respect that. Perhaps they hold out hope they will sell a few units.... maybe they dont want their stuff ruined with ugly intros.... its their call.

My 16c. cat to /dev/null as you see fit.

2006-03-23 09:29

ready.

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441

I totally agree with you Style, well put.

2006-03-23 09:55

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

This is acceptable.

But have any of the companies in the past or have Protovision emailed any of the cracker groups and asked them not to do this?

In general, with new games, Onslaught tend to steer away from them, in the case of Reel Fishing Preview - the coder Courage specifically requested that we release the preview as he was angry that a "fake group" released his Tanks 3000 (so he wasn't angry about it being cracked, but by who released it instead).

I can only speak for my own group, I will leave it to other groups to speak for themselves regarding this matter.

2006-03-23 12:09

Jak T Rip

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 39

Thank you, ready and Style.

About the rest:
I understand most of the arguments put forward by both parties. What I dont find reasonable is the argumentation itself. It does not matter if it is true that cracks dont decrease sales or whatsoever. It also does not matter if PTV or other comps mailed crackers and asked them to stop (And you know best we did, Jazzcat). What matters is results and not who has the truth or reason on his side. And the result of pissing off people is a bad one. So, please, don't do it! :) But also don't overdue your anger when somebody else pisses you off.

In general, 'fuckings' do not belong into a public forum. As said above, not everybody is a master of his own temper and there's no need in provoking. If you want to clear out something, do it directly with that person or don't. Side-kicking is not clearing out but stirring piss-offs, and is only destructive, no matter what good reasons you may have.
And yes, it's a good thing not to discourage ppl when writing comments. Let them keep face.

2006-03-23 12:15

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11111

"(so he wasn't angry about it being cracked, but by who rleased it instead)."

ROTFL.

2006-03-23 13:00

A Life in Hell
Account closed

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204

Hrm, I'm pretty sure that people have had this argument before. Multiple times, in fact.

But seriously, why is anyone surprised that a commercial game producer doesn't enjoy seeing their commercial game warezed? Isn't this the very definition of what seperates them from freeware game producers?

Unlike most people, I completly understand why Courage sent me fuckings (despite me not participating in this "debate", and indeed having bought his game instead of pirating it). If game producers liked me, game over(view) wouldn't have been doing its job correctly :-p. In any case, I think this is one of those times when everyone needs to let themselves sit for a few days, and only react if they're still angry after having time to cool down. But, as someone else said, I guess not everyone is in control of their tempers at all times (the lord knows I have acted out before :-p)

(clarification, since someone mentioned it to me and made me think that maybe it's not 100% clear to non-native speakers: I have nothing against protovision. indeed, i am looking forward to a few of their upcoming games. i've said this before, but everyone ignores it when I don't like some aspect or another of some games... go figure)

(clarification #2: yes, i know that protovision isn't one monolithic entity, but when one becomes a company or group, one does have a single public face. that's life :))

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