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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #32484 : Pinball Dreams C64 Preview
2007-11-30 01:57
Matt

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 557
Release id #32484 : Pinball Dreams C64 Preview

what's the latest?
2007-11-30 10:26
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Not much news at the moment, sorry :P
2012-07-23 19:56
Bago Zonde

Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Hello! What about this amazing project? Is there any possibility to finish it? I was searching for source code but I found only dead links. Somebody could help me find sources for this crazy stuff?

Thx!
www.commocore.com
2012-07-24 16:51
Leticia
Account closed

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 21
Still searching the source? Then try out this link http://web.archive.org/web/20101114084405/http://www.interstyle..
2016-10-28 08:51
Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 795
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=68387

amstrad pinball dreams, better get busy WVL :)
2016-10-28 09:00
Shadow

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 333
I wonder if the CPC version took any inspiration from the C64 source code? Sure it's Z80 vs 6502 but I imagine that some of the ball physics stuff could have been useful. But they might have written everything from scratch as well.
2016-10-28 12:19
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Darn. What timing. Now I'm sure to be harassed during X16... Aargh!

Looks really nice though! I also wonder what they're doing. Keep in mind they have a faster processor (4mhz) and more memory (128kb) though..
2016-10-28 12:52
Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 364
Some would argue that a 4MHz Z80 isn't really faster than a 1MHz 6502...
2016-10-28 13:03
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 954
Something seems off with the ball physics in the CPC version. In WVL's C64 version (and of course the Amiga original) the ball curves smoothly around the ramp bends, but in the CPC version the ball jerks and loses speed. Also when the ball launches it just falls like a dead fish.

Compare:

https://youtu.be/HVv-oBN6AWA?t=3m29s
https://youtu.be/GvmmCv8_GSU?t=4m10s

They've nailed the graphics engine and the music though, so with some physics tweaks it looks like a really nice port.

PS: Mr SID, they'd be wrong, especially if you do 16-bit math and addressing. IIRC a 4 MHz Z80 should have at least 50% more grunt compared to a 1 MHz 6502.
2016-10-28 14:16
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Must talk to Jackasser...
2016-10-28 14:32
Iapetus

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71
I can't stand the YM sound though. yuck
2016-10-28 15:55
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Must talk to Jackasser...

Had to cancel my x-trip.. :( my wife is just waaay too pregnant. :D if you wanna finish it plz contact me on FB and we'll setup a modern dev-chain and just do it. All the hard stuff is done.

Pantaloon: please ask your bosses if they have the score-rules for the game stashed at Dice somewhere.
2016-10-28 16:11
Iapetus

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71
Quote: Something seems off with the ball physics in the CPC version. In WVL's C64 version (and of course the Amiga original) the ball curves smoothly around the ramp bends, but in the CPC version the ball jerks and loses speed. Also when the ball launches it just falls like a dead fish.

Compare:

https://youtu.be/HVv-oBN6AWA?t=3m29s
https://youtu.be/GvmmCv8_GSU?t=4m10s

They've nailed the graphics engine and the music though, so with some physics tweaks it looks like a really nice port.

PS: Mr SID, they'd be wrong, especially if you do 16-bit math and addressing. IIRC a 4 MHz Z80 should have at least 50% more grunt compared to a 1 MHz 6502.


The Effective CPU speed on the CPC is 3.3 MHZ (Google for: Z80 timings on Amstrad CPC - Octoate.de Wiki)
2016-10-29 08:26
rexbeng

Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 10
Just a comment on the instances where the ball and/or scrolling seems jerky on the youtube video posted on Pouet. There's still some trouble with capturing and uploading CPC emulator videos on youtube.

This videocamera capture of the real thing should be a more accurate example. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-tcsxUtMj5I

Having written the above, I still havent run PD on a real CPC yet.
2016-10-31 12:01
bugjam

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1752
Blimey, missed the chance to harrass WVL on X. ;-)
But great to hear that there is some movement in the project again!
2016-10-31 12:07
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
i totally forgot to harass werner about this! pah

good luck for your wife jackasser :)
2016-10-31 12:17
bugjam

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1752
Oh yes, also what gpz said - jackasser, all the best, and keep them fresh sceners coming! :-)
2016-10-31 12:20
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 954
Quoting rexbeng
Just a comment on the instances where the ball and/or scrolling seems jerky on the youtube video posted on Pouet. There's still some trouble with capturing and uploading CPC emulator videos on youtube.


Interesting, presumably because they screw around with the video timing for some effects, a la C128 VDC effects? Either way, emulator/capture jerkiness is not what I'm talking about, it's the ball changing speed and angle in unexpected ways.
2016-10-31 16:57
rexbeng

Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 10
@MagerValp

Well, I am a pixel man and not the right person to go into technical details. If you care there's an 'official' thread following the release of PD where the author is actually posting answers to people's technical questions. :)

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/pinball-illusions-new-game-fr..
2016-10-31 18:37
Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 325
Just opensource it on GitHub – someone will pick it up :)

Or better – run a KickStarter campaign, and get paid to finish it.
2016-10-31 19:24
Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 637
Very interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it.
2016-10-31 19:31
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
its like speccy ppl. inferior - without the complex. :)
2016-10-31 21:26
Iapetus

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71
Quote: Very interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it.

If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64.
2016-10-31 21:32
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64.

It's an awesome demo though!
2016-10-31 21:42
Iapetus

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71
Quote: It's an awesome demo though!

Yes, it's very good. The best on that machine imho.
2016-11-01 12:29
Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 637
Quote: If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64.

Of course I've seen that, and yes, I reacted to it then as well. It's not as if C64 demos are chock full of rants about how much Amstrad or Spectrum sucks. I mean, who would you be trying to convince?
2016-11-01 18:28
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 954
Dominant platform vs underdog, same as always.
2016-11-01 18:33
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1373
Fuck Spectrum! Fuck Atari! Fuck PC!
2016-11-03 09:06
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Started yesterday on a new tool to make a list of charblocks that need to have a certain color. For things like lights I want to have the colors that change as screencolors, and not as $d800 colors. Reason : it makes codes simpler, since you can write the new color to a fixed memory address, no matter how you scrolled.

I used to have a tool on the c64 for this, but that was horrible work to do :-)

So now I'll have a simple GUI editor in which I can say what for what charblocks I need certain colors to be the screencolors and output a list. A commandline tool (that i can add in my build) updates the bitmaps according to the list.

nice.
2016-11-03 09:09
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
cheater!
2016-11-03 20:32
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Started yesterday on a new tool to make a list of charblocks that need to have a certain color. For things like lights I want to have the colors that change as screencolors, and not as $d800 colors. Reason : it makes codes simpler, since you can write the new color to a fixed memory address, no matter how you scrolled.

I used to have a tool on the c64 for this, but that was horrible work to do :-)

So now I'll have a simple GUI editor in which I can say what for what charblocks I need certain colors to be the screencolors and output a list. A commandline tool (that i can add in my build) updates the bitmaps according to the list.

nice.


Now send me the code and let me setup a proper git so that we can collaborate!
2016-11-03 22:16
Magic

Registered: Sep 2012
Posts: 32
I actually remember now that I convinced WVL at Breakpoint 2006 to enter the c64 preview in the game compo..
And it even won hehe ;)

But indeed time for a final version.. (if just everybody involved could dedicate time again for it..)
Does it maybe need a kickstarter? :)
2016-11-04 11:57
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Quote: Now send me the code and let me setup a proper git so that we can collaborate!

yessir!
2016-12-08 16:19
Matt

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 557
is TCH still on board or are all the graphics drawn already?
Needless to say I'm terribly looking forward to this!
2017-11-18 01:36
Style

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 487
bump :)
2017-11-18 09:13
TWW

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 449
According to recent events, the source had to be re-evaluated (as heard by inside sources). It is now a matter of meeting the tough industry standards in which coders has to adhere too in terms of not only functionality but also aesthetics.

The whole SEI / CLI debate has completely derailed the project.

Let us hope that the responsible project owners can add the magic "//", ";" or "REM" on the applicable source code lines so we can see this endeavour materialise into the product we all hope it will be.
2017-11-18 09:27
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
The ball (phun intended) is on WVL as per post #33
2017-11-19 21:28
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1241
I'd guess the fact that the source comes as a big bad monolith of doom is more of a problem than interrupt-preventing cargo cult. And SEI/CLI "jokes" weren't in the least funny so far, no matter how elaborate.
2017-11-19 22:25
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: I'd guess the fact that the source comes as a big bad monolith of doom is more of a problem than interrupt-preventing cargo cult. And SEI/CLI "jokes" weren't in the least funny so far, no matter how elaborate.

It's not more than the average demo part to be honest. :)
2017-11-19 22:52
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
yesyesyes... Did you all know I just had a second daughter? :-)
2017-11-19 23:08
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4426
so daughter is finished, now you can get back to PD ;)
2017-11-19 23:28
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: yesyesyes... Did you all know I just had a second daughter? :-)

Congrats!! My 2nd turns 1 tomorrow. :)
2017-11-19 23:59
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1373
Stay on topic motherfuckers!
2017-11-20 07:03
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Stay on topic motherfuckers!

It’s on topic. Had CSDb have sub-topics the label would be: Pinball Dreams C64 -> Delivery plan -> Excuses
2017-11-20 10:17
Tao

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 114
Quoting JackAsser
It’s on topic. Had CSDb have sub-topics the label would be: Pinball Dreams C64 -> Delivery plan -> Excuses


If he's already had his second daughter it means that there's been a delivery....
2017-11-20 11:52
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 2585
One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."

It this case, forget about Pinball Dreams guys.

At least until WVL's kids grow up ;-).
2017-11-20 12:31
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 610
Quote:
One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."


Sums it up perfectly :)
2017-11-20 13:29
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."

It this case, forget about Pinball Dreams guys.

At least until WVL's kids grow up ;-).


HCL coded Edge of Disgrace with two kids, and Uncensored with three kids... I'm currently experiencing a C64 peak productivity that I havn't felt for years, while sleep deprivated etc. It has NOTHING to do with kids, and EVERYTHING to do with how fun you think it is. :)
2017-11-20 13:41
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
CHUCKY TO THE RESCUE
2017-11-20 13:44
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1241
Jackasser: Did you just promise the finished game for Christmas there? :) (This year's, mind.)
2017-11-20 14:03
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Jackasser: Did you just promise the finished game for Christmas there? :) (This year's, mind.)

Ha!
2017-11-20 17:37
Cruzer

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 999
Also still eagerly awaiting what WVL meant by his comment on Negative Karma V2. And so is Crossbow, I'm sure.
2017-11-22 16:16
Monte Carlos

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 266
If you have a good social family/friends network, then it may still be possible to finish your demos ;-)
However thats not always the case.
Until then you need to have the kids finish your demos when they are grown up.
2017-11-22 21:07
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4426
Jackie is kind of right, lately I was the most active when I had the least free time. Basicly I was coding effects half asleep while being in work :)
2017-11-22 21:13
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ
2017-11-22 21:27
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1373
No, doesn't count at all.
2017-11-22 21:27
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4426
Quote: Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ

no its totally understandable, sometimes one just has enough of a project finished or not :) certainly its none of these reasons PD wasnt finished yet.
2017-11-22 22:06
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ

If it's of any help, I've just asked Pantaloon to ask Andreas Axelsson for the original sources so that we don't have to reverse engineer the scoring system. This is really what's blocking a release as far as I'm concerned. A big blob of BORING code after all fun and hard code was finished. Cross your fingers that we'll get them.
2017-11-22 22:10
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
I remember asking Andreas about that, don't think he had it anymore. Can't find that e-mail back though :-(
2017-11-23 09:15
pepto

Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 35
Another interesting source for the Pinball Dreams scoring-system might be Vesa Halttunen (vesuri^daJormas), who spent some time working with the source code, as far as I know...

Quote:
I completely rewrote the game in C++/OpenGL from the original 68000 assembler source code in 2009. The rewrite includes 100% exact original gameplay
2017-11-23 10:44
Shadow

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 333
There are a quite a few ports of Pinball Dreams for different systems (I remember there even being one for the GamePark32 which is a quite obscure hardware...) so maybe it's possible to track down someone who worked on one of the ports if none of the original Digital Illusions dudes has the source?
2017-11-23 13:08
Pantaloon

Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 122
I'm digging out the sources for Jackasser so they can have a look.
2017-11-23 13:35
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: I'm digging out the sources for Jackasser so they can have a look.

Very kind of you!
2017-11-23 21:29
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Thanks Panta!
2017-11-25 21:43
Rhino
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Hi everyone!

I am the Batman Group coder that is doing the Pinball Dreams port for Amstrad CPC, which I hope to finish in a few months.
I recently found this thread, which seems quite interesting ...

@WVL
I hope you can finish the project some day, since I see that you are doing a great job and it will be interesting to compare both versions :)

I also wanted to ask you about the game rights. I read somewhere that you got the rights, how did you do it?, I've been trying to contact Rebellion, through their website, Facebook, etc ... but I have not received an answer :/

I would also like to have the approval of the original authors and if anyone can get in touch with them, I will be grateful.

Thanks in advance!
2019-04-26 12:40
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 836
Ok, here's the deal...

If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..

Sounds encouraging enough? ;)
2019-04-26 13:04
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...

If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..

Sounds encouraging enough? ;)


Wooo! Haaaa! \o/
2019-04-26 13:32
Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 170
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...

If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..

Sounds encouraging enough? ;)


Send me a PM with your email ... I can make an intro to the Kingsleys if you like? (they own Rebellion)
2019-04-26 20:47
WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...

If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..

Sounds encouraging enough? ;)


Now this is getting interesting :-)
2019-04-26 20:48
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1534
Quote: Now this is getting interesting :-)

I’ve talked to Robert and he introduced me. PM your mail and I’ll CC you in
2019-04-27 14:01
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 2585
Jamma, mymaaan!!!!
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