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2021-02-15 14:29

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1775
4K categories

Currently there is "4K Intro" and "4K Game".

With the invention of ICC, the fundamental difference between 4K demos and 4K intros became apparent.

The former are restricted to 4 KB executable size but may use the entire RAM during run-time (traditional 4K restriction in demo compos), and the latter are restricted to 4 KB of run-time memory usage (restriction for actual intros running before a linked payload).

This difference has a tremendous impact on what can or cannot be done, in all departments.

So maybe it's a good idea to introduce "4K Demo" as a new category.
Most existing "4K Intro" entries would fall into that, so maybe they could be blanket-changed to "4K Demo", then users would change select entries back to "4K Intro" over time.
2021-02-15 14:33

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1795
I'll add that One file demos and One part demos should also be different. How Oneder not be in top 10 is just ridiculous.
2021-02-15 14:33

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9742
Or perhaps just do the right thing and make "size restriction" a seperate property in the db?
2021-02-15 14:38

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1775
Quoting Groepaz
Or perhaps just do the right thing and make "size restriction" a seperate property in the db?
Should distinguish between executable size and run-time memory, then.
2021-02-15 14:48

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 423
Well, "4k Intro" has been a fixed category in demo competitions for a long time. Never found the sense why it was called "intro" but accepted it as traditional naming for a single- or multipart demo which is only allowed to have 4096bytes as executable but may occupy everything available after start.

I don't see the need for a separate category just because I've made my compo rules different to only allow a footprint of 4k before and after running.
2021-02-15 14:54

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1775
I wouldn't use "tradition" as a reason to keep a silly label for something that can be named more aptly to reduce confusion and ambiguity.
2021-02-15 17:21

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 832
Actually I find this exotic ICC 4K "footprint" rule (pretty much resulting in 4K uncrunched without any out of boundaries writes apart from I/O, ZP, Stack) is rather a special case of 4K intro. I don't wanna complain about that rule, it's fun to have that extra restriction. We might wanna debate 16 blocks on disk (which is a little less than 4.096 due to header byte and pointer bytes). But in my book 4K (if you don't compete in ICC 4K) means what-so-ever-stuff how-so-ever-crunched fits into 4K.

PS: And one-filed-demo versus intro... well, I don't wanna dive into THAT discussion again, as I guess all silly and controversial views on that have been exchanged without any compromise.
2021-02-15 17:48

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 847
I share your ideas, but it'll never happen. Development on csdb has stopped a long long time ago.

Still waiting for a PETSCII compo category too...
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