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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Why is editing/deleting old comments enabled?
Noticed a few times when deletion/editing of old comments resulted quite funny/annoying/baffling comment-threads.
Is there a special reason for this being enabled? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
i have been wondering that myself numerous times aswell. it sucks. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Well, sometimes a comment I make has a short 'lifespan' (a question or sth) so in those cases it's always nice if it can be deleted. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
sure, sometimes it has legit uses. however the potential for abuse and confusion is much higher. |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1677 |
The main reason was that when we first made CSDb comments was supposed to be single personal oppinions about that entry. It wasn't supposed to be used for questions or discussions, but that is what happened.
So editing and deleting comments shouldn't have a big influence as comments wasn't supposed to be connected in any way, and one might change his mind about an entry, so..
But now that the comments are more (to my disliking) used as a tiny discussion forum for each entry, you are right that editing/deleting makes little sense.
So I guess I must give up in the hope that comments are used the way they should be, and remove the edit/delete feature? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
personally i'd merge the "comments" and "discuss this entry" feature. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: The main reason was that when we first made CSDb comments was supposed to be single personal oppinions about that entry. It wasn't supposed to be used for questions or discussions, but that is what happened.
So editing and deleting comments shouldn't have a big influence as comments wasn't supposed to be connected in any way, and one might change his mind about an entry, so..
But now that the comments are more (to my disliking) used as a tiny discussion forum for each entry, you are right that editing/deleting makes little sense.
So I guess I must give up in the hope that comments are used the way they should be, and remove the edit/delete feature?
how about only allowing one comment per person per release. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
TDJ: hmm, perhaps you could place your temporary questions to the "Production Notes" area (and leave this page editable)?
Quoting Oswaldbogárhow about only allowing one comment per person per release.
That will probably lead to a lot of frustration :)
I still think the best way is to disable the feature. Or to merge it with the forum, as Groepaz suggested. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote:how about only allowing one comment per person per release.
Quote:That will probably lead to a lot of frustration :)
yes. but good frustration (ie: "I cant have a discussion in the comments when I can only comment once!")
I'm not in favor of disabling stuff right away just because a few ppl abuse something. |
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saehn
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 44 |
Quote: The main reason was that when we first made CSDb comments was supposed to be single personal oppinions about that entry. It wasn't supposed to be used for questions or discussions, but that is what happened.
So editing and deleting comments shouldn't have a big influence as comments wasn't supposed to be connected in any way, and one might change his mind about an entry, so..
But now that the comments are more (to my disliking) used as a tiny discussion forum for each entry, you are right that editing/deleting makes little sense.
So I guess I must give up in the hope that comments are used the way they should be, and remove the edit/delete feature?
A communication system should meet user requirements... the users shouldn't have to meet system requirements ;).
People seem to like communicating via this method. If edits are disabled, the potential for abuse goes down and the database maintains historic integrity. If someone wants to "revise" a previous statement, that can easily be accomplished via a follow-up comment.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
Quote:
If someone wants to "revise" a previous statement, that can easily be accomplished via a follow-up comment.
exactly. letting users edit past statements is an invitation for various malicious things. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: Quote:
If someone wants to "revise" a previous statement, that can easily be accomplished via a follow-up comment.
exactly. letting users edit past statements is an invitation for various malicious things.
why do you always focus on malicious things and ppl abusing everything?
99% of the users don't do anything malicious and don't abuse anything. just limit access to the crappy 1% (no edit/delete comment rights) and be done with it.
it's a bit of an american way of handling things. (and no that is not a compliment;) |
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assiduous
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2007
Posts: 343 |
Please let me know in advance as soon as you've decided to disable this feature so that I can delete my comments beforehand. alot of them are pertaining to emulation bugs and I was hoping that as emulators improve with time i would be able to update my comments. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: Please let me know in advance as soon as you've decided to disable this feature so that I can delete my comments beforehand. alot of them are pertaining to emulation bugs and I was hoping that as emulators improve with time i would be able to update my comments.
Solution A: add another comment stating that the bug was fixed
Solution B: add a comment to the Production Notes area - hopefully edit would be still enabled there (looking in the way of Perff)
Solution C: if noone added a comment after yours, it would be still editable (just as it is on the forum) - at least I think so |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
What about making comments replyable?
Like... you can respond to a comment or add a new one.
And when a response is given to a certain comment, that comment is not editable/deletable anymore.
In short: a comment can end up becoming a thread.
(For people who can read Dutch (or like to see what I mean without understanding what is said on the page): something like the frontpage of Tweakers (click a news item to see what I mean))
In the process, you can remove the link to the general forum ('discuss this ...'). |
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
"Please put only comments on the actual release here. All further discussion belongs into the forum, and will be removed if posted here!"
those who cannot read, should perhaps not add comments!
if anyone is misusing it by replying and the it looks weird because the source is edited or deleted, it's their own fault
discussions belongs to the forum, you can quote your favourite comment and start a thread there if there is need for discussion... i'll always vote for a stricter censorship to actually delete all kind of discussions in the comments...
what you suggest might be a good approach though
see www.heise.de ( any older news entry, then 'Kommentare lesen') for another kind of tree-style discussion.
why does csdb not have this? is there some strange alien technology required for this?! ;)
i think we can satisfy most users, those pro-locking and those contra-locking:
1. we should leave comments editable, thats the way it is wanted, that's the way we are used to
2. perff could add a 'quote' button or 'start a discussion'-link besides every comment, there you can actually start a discussion on any comment, which will of course be created in the forum, where it belongs!
tree-style would be nice, so we have a tree-root as the entry and all discussions under there.
tree style discussion / tree structure forum |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote:i'll always vote for a stricter censorship to actually delete all kind of discussions in the comments...
a moderator that gets a line like that out of his keyboard should receive a life-long ban on moderating anything.
start by moderating your own keyboard first, please. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
burglar, loose moderation can get funny when rules are applied to only some persons :) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Oswald you are a born troublemaker and a dirty outlaw! No wonder you constanly get into trouble with the moderators, unlike the rest of us. :D |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: burglar, loose moderation can get funny when rules are applied to only some persons :)
ozzy, you're not helping your point of view with adding trollthreads here... you'll only piss off the censors...
anyway, ontopic question for the moderators: why is it so bad that some releasespecific discussions take place in the comments? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
if those discussions were actually release specific, then it'd be ok i guess :) its just that they usually quickly spin off into something completely offtopic.
(however, back to the original question ... =P) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: if those discussions were actually release specific, then it'd be ok i guess :) its just that they usually quickly spin off into something completely offtopic.
(however, back to the original question ... =P)
can you give a recent example where it all went wrong? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
There's also the method of allowing people to edit/delete their comments as long as they are logged in and remove the option when they log out. This is ofcourse only usefull if I get logged out automatically when I close the session, which I prefer as well. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
the windows vs linux crap in the project one entry is a good example (although a good bunch of "bad" comments have been removed there already, so you probably cant really see all the mess). also the attacks on vanja in one of her recent pictures.
however, IMHO the biggest problem is that "letting users delete/edit previous comments" and "general discussing in comments as if it'd be a forum thread" don't go together well. or at all :) it'd be much less of a mess when it'd be a regular thread. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
When making a comment in real life, you can't edit it afterwards either. What's said, is said. Only by making an additional comment you can try to undo the damage. (if you're not a psycho boy that wants to do damage, that is) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
hein: thats exactly my argument too. if you changed your opinion, just say so. there is nothing wrong with it. quite the contrary, it could even be quite interisting to see how and why people changed their view on a certain release over time. |
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
to me, the comments are there to enable me getting a few user-judgements about a release without having to read endless discussions
that is why we have seperate areas to either leave a single comment or discuss the release... |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: can you give a recent example where it all went wrong?
There you go. Actually I am also guilty for the discussion going too far but my gentle little soul got quite upset. :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: the windows vs linux crap in the project one entry is a good example (although a good bunch of "bad" comments have been removed there already, so you probably cant really see all the mess). also the attacks on vanja in one of her recent pictures.
however, IMHO the biggest problem is that "letting users delete/edit previous comments" and "general discussing in comments as if it'd be a forum thread" don't go together well. or at all :) it'd be much less of a mess when it'd be a regular thread.
thanks, I hope there are dozens more examples from the last 12 months, otherwise I don't really see why we are discussing this ;)
just checked the P1 comments and it looks like it was properly cleaned (getting rid of offtopic bullshit is not the same as censorship btw;)
anyway, I actually dont really mind of the edit/delete comment functionality is disabled, but only if there are problems with serious abuse at least once a month ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
Quote:
getting rid of offtopic bullshit is not the same as censorship btw
good to hear =P
i think part of the problem is how comments are presented. right now there is little difference between a forum thread and the comments, which not surprisingly leads to comments beeing used similar. one way to transform comments more into something like wreg said (and i think so too) could be to only display one comment at a time, randomly. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Groepazone way to transform comments more into something like wreg said (and i think so too) could be to only display one comment at a time, randomly.
Or what about displaying ALL comments in random order? That would be an awesome experience in some cases! :D |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: There you go. Actually I am also guilty for the discussion going too far but my gentle little soul got quite upset. :)
well, we're only human after all ;)
Quote:i think part of the problem is how comments are presented. right now there is little difference between a forum thread and the comments, which not surprisingly leads to comments beeing used similar. one way to transform comments more into something like wreg said (and i think so too) could be to only display one comment at a time, randomly.
as long as there's a view all comments button as well ;)
also, if this gets implemented, I would like to pull the releasethread from the forum a bit closer to the release, by for example showing the initial post of the thread (or the first 10 words of the post) at the bottom of the releasepage.
I agree that part of the problem is indeed presentation at the moment. Even though I still don't really think there's a real problem. |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
Quote: hein: thats exactly my argument too. if you changed your opinion, just say so. there is nothing wrong with it. quite the contrary, it could even be quite interisting to see how and why people changed their view on a certain release over time.
I'll second that opinion. editing previous statements, especially after seeing 20 replies to a remark is annoying as hell, not to mention confusing.
I thought the same for closed/removed threads too, but changed my mind on that after reading some words from Creamd and Groepaz in the past and have to admit it simply calms down most of the stressheads on this database ;)
So there.. I rarely change my mind, being an arrogant and stubborn ass, but when I do myself I'll simply state it. (besides I cant be bothered to find the thread I bitched about closing threads either.. hehe)
Leave change it to edit open until someone posted a comment after your comment, that should leave enough room to remove typohs etc. and add changes can be added in a new comment.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
Quote:
Or what about displaying ALL comments in random order? That would be an awesome experience in some cases! :D
i'd rather see that feature for forum threads. extreme discussing ftw! =D |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
A specific example:
 |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Cartoon strip or it didn't happen :P |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 226 |
Yes JB! Cartoon and my pic in there :P |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Damn it! Seems I'm now cursed with people expecting cartoons from me even if I have a serious problem.
No guys, not that funny. I'd really want to see a solution :) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
No, seriously. Comic strip, or its not going to happen :-D
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Here's your fucking strip, now solve the problem.
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=7&topicid=67705#67793
How many comments were removed here?
I'm guessing a couple, so parts of the discussion are hard to follow.
I'd like to *bump* this again, would prefer to see the the edit function of comments disapear in total.
But could it atleast be possible to mark edited or deleted comments so that a reader who didn't follow a discussion live atleast knows what is happening?
For example
** post has been edited 01-JUL-2009 13:43
or
** post deleted by poster 01-JUL-2009 13:43
? |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
A wiki style history would be interesting.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
first of all: comments!=forum posts. this thread is about comments, not forum posts. forum posts can not be edited at all. (not by users anyways, the evil moderator nazis can do it ofcourse)
Quote:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=7&topicid=67705#67793
How many comments were removed here?
I'm guessing a couple, so parts of the discussion are hard to follow.
exactly one, and it only contained a bunch of silly pictures. if you think the discussion is "hard to follow" - it's probably because it is full of crap =P
Quote:
I'd like to *bump* this again, would prefer to see the the edit function of comments disapear in total.
yep, same here :)
Quote:
But could it atleast be possible to mark edited or deleted comments so that a reader who didn't follow a discussion live atleast knows what is happening?
For example
** post has been edited 01-JUL-2009 13:43
or
** post deleted by poster 01-JUL-2009 13:43
?
you seem to be mixing up forum posts and comments again....
we had this crap in the forum a while back, and it was removed, because it only stirs the shit even more, and clutters the thread with pointless messages, making it no less hard to read than without the crap posts removed.
as for comments, you said it above. i'd rather see the edit function removed completely.
Quote:A wiki style history would be interesting.
for the comments? completely useless and pointless, IMHO. we have something like that internally for other stuff (database entries).... the only use i see for this in comments is - stirring the shit. no.
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
crap, indeed mixed up comments/forums, but still current request though ;)
oh *lol* i like evil nazi mod edits actually ;)
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Groepaz: It makes it easier to follow comments if some information is there to say what happened, at least it would be a start. |
