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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Wired Demo?
Hello.
I'm thinking of making a new demo with a 20th Anniversary theme for the Commodore 64. (1982-2002)
I wonder if it's 'taboo' in the C64 demo scene to use wired graphics? (Graphics done on moderm PC platforms and converted to a suitable C64 format.) I really don't have the time to draw graphics by hand and can only cobble up some code to display some graphics, maybe do a special demo effect or two.
Oh, any recommendations for a musician? :)
Thanks,
-Todd Elliott |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
That means that if i were to sit down and draw some graphics in a copy of Paintmagic running on CCS64 *that* wouldn't be a C64 graphic too...?! |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
For me:
using real C64 and real C64 tools -> more suffering -> more time taken -> less productivity -> stuff never gets finished
I did it long enough and got nothing done. But each has own preferences... |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
TMR, do you have a working c64 by your side? Yes you do. So what's the point of pixelling under an emulator?
I am doing c64 graphics on PC when I am in a bitching hurry to finish something or I don't have a commie around. Sure, if wiring graphics helps you to produce more stuff, do so, convert, but wire it to look good. Yet calling that c64-art is still kinda stupid, 'cause it's PC or Amiga "art" subordinated to c64's graphics-standards and converted to it, whilst you didn't even touched the computer which originally supposed to be the producing "tool" of that so-called "art". For me it is about the principles, as long I am not "scening" for money and the fame. Playing around Photoshop, GFX2 or Brilliance is damn easy. To finish a full-screen c64 picture is a matter of few hours, even original stuff is very easy to do.
Have you ever wondered why the best graphicians never intend(ed) to keep releasing graphics that were pixelled on PC or Amiga, even if the pixelling would be much much easier? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3051 |
For me, wiring is automated software conversion of images which originally weren't made for C64 and didn't use C64 color palette. I consider pics pixelled/drawn using C64 palette (even when they are pixelled using photoshop) a regular C64 pics. Looking at wired pics is almost like listening to CD full of emulated SID music from Sidplay. In both cases someone is making a fool of you... |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I agree with CreaMD here. There's quite a difference between wiring and wiring. To wire, in the sense of converting a PC-colored picture and using it as it is after the conversion, is both ugly and pointless from an artistic view - and should thus be avoided. To pixel something on the Amiga/PC, and then wiring it with the intention of using it on a C-64 is a completely different issue. A picture drawn with PC tools (as Paintshop Pro or Elitepaint) using correct C-64 palettes is - by all means - a C-64 picture, isn't it? It's just a matter of speed, visibility and using the tools you prefer. Another reason might be that you use a monitor on the PC, a device many people lack on the C-64.
My first name is Quick and my last name is Dirty. In this scene we should worry less about how good graphics is produced (eg. handpixeled on the C-64) and more about the sad quality of the releases and most of all the lack of them. Face it - wiring makes work faster and increases the amount of releases on this machine, just as Cadaver pointed it out. But on the other hand, everyone have their own preferences of what is acceptable, and I do for sure know what my preferences are. Wire!
And no, Iopop, every graphician haven't got an excellent conversion-slave like you, spending more time on perfecting the showers for the graphics than on the demo itself. :-)
/Twoflower |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Maybe we need to differentiate between pictures that are wired from other sources (which is what i've always taken "wired" to mean) and those that are "cross developed" on other platforms...?
Of course, then we get into that grey area of pictures that are wired and *then* cleaned up under cross development. =-) |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
stupid question: why is it called "wiring" anyway and what's the -> exact <- definition of that term in your eyes? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: stupid question: why is it called "wiring" anyway and what's the -> exact <- definition of that term in your eyes?
Well, personally i picked the term from the Byterapers' "Wired Art" and i've always assumed the term "wiring" came about because the image data was shovelled down a wire between a C64 and another machine (in the same way that many software houses in the late 1980s and early 1990s used to do it).
My own system originally used an Amiga 1200 to process the images down and split them into two bitplanes (for 4 colour greyscale) which were dropped to an MSDOS disk with CrossDOS and loaded into a C64 with a TIB 3.5" drive. The final bitplane merging was done with my own "utility".
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Tempest
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 4 |
Why the hell are you talking about PSP and Photoshop?
Those softwares aren't really made for pixelling
pictures with low amount of colors.
Curse those morons who convert a picture with zillions
of colors to ifli.
I do my BLASPHEMOUS multicol c64-graphics on GFX2 (PC).
And I pixel everything in a way that I wont have to
fix thousands of tilebugs. Usually there's 1-4 tilebugs.
If I have to choose between joystick or mouse, there's no
way I'm using the one which was never meant for drawing
loose lines and curves etc.
After that I convert the image to koala or mpic and
do final touches on drazpaint, on emulator! :)
That's because I've lost my x1541-cable years ago.
I haven't found a better way to draw images for C64.
I'm having hard time understanding why things should be made
in a harder way. C64 is just a computer, handling bits and bytes. I dont have to romanticize that piece of junk:)
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Why the hell are you talking about PSP and Photoshop?
Those softwares aren't really made for pixelling
pictures with low amount of colors.
Curse those morons who convert a picture with zillions
of colors to ifli.
I do my BLASPHEMOUS multicol c64-graphics on GFX2 (PC).
And I pixel everything in a way that I wont have to
fix thousands of tilebugs. Usually there's 1-4 tilebugs.
If I have to choose between joystick or mouse, there's no
way I'm using the one which was never meant for drawing
loose lines and curves etc.
After that I convert the image to koala or mpic and
do final touches on drazpaint, on emulator! :)
That's because I've lost my x1541-cable years ago.
I haven't found a better way to draw images for C64.
I'm having hard time understanding why things should be made
in a harder way. C64 is just a computer, handling bits and bytes. I dont have to romanticize that piece of junk:)
Junk? JUNK?
I say we burn this heathen! :)
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