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2013-02-16 10:45

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

demos

READ WITH CARE AND WITH OPEN MIND:

Based on Revolved and demos like that - really great demos... but...

It is truly a beauty of a demo you have created and the hours, work and cleverness behind it must be massive!!!... Can I go beyond the normal standards here? OK? Cool... I just want to ask the c64 scene something that I really think so much about... what are we? What are the scene? Where do we want to be or where do we want to go? What if we become the producers of the all loving and polished no to argue and nothing to complain about? what is the scene then... I think this demo show some super powers in making something run smooth and so seamingless and so splendid... but where is the hard-on? Where is the humor? Where is the fun and loving bits? Where is the contrasts? Where is the black and white? Where is the FUN? When should I smile with sound and when should I cry? I meen this demo is so cool and a great piece til revolved logo is on screen and then the next effect is also cool.... then a line makes a splitt and the demo is insane cool... but after that... what is it really? For me it is people trying to make something that everyone will think is really great. It is so well made this demo so I am on thin ground here and I see that because I see the demo over and over and over again and I just envy the transition power in here and the colors and the fades and all but to me it is really mostly that... the plasma over the char squares are great also.... then the portrait part with the rotating letters, beautiful.... but so without sole... then the best part of the demo comes the rotating stuff.... from here and in it is for me just smooth moves and really beutiful work... but what I really ask is: Is this it? Is that what we are aiming for? The sphere movers are ofcourse beautiful and so cool...everything is really splendid in the demo!!! That is why I try to write this post as true as possible... how many demos like this will it take to kill our scene? We are part of something that we love and we love it because we are part of something that is NOT mainstream... so why do we push the productions to be mainstream? I meen, this is a fantastic demo, it really is and congratulations for the win, I really meen that and I hope you all can read my text in a way that is not hate, not bad or not silly, because I really meen this... Are we not men with our edge anymore? If we want to do the all perfect stuff for all humans on the planet earth, are we then not on the wrong platform??... I want to say something, want you to smile, to cry and to die because it is silly or so hard to grasp... I do not want to make smooth powerpoints with a cool sid tune on top... The cool DANE tune saves this demo even more for me even the demo in itself is so great... but the greatness is not the best for me... can I say this without beeing the worst arse in the scene? In a way I know my powers in making demos and also I know that we can make the transitions and make all blend so great but that is just not fun to do so again super thanx for your time on that, how many demos more would you like to do that on? ...maybe I just am all wrong but to me it is about effects and making some insane things on this machine and not just press the gausian blur button in photoshop and make it be so that everyone likes it... what about make someone puke... make them hate your demo... make them love it... make them be filled with anger... make them cry out of emotions, just a text like my text in Another beginning with the man in the window, it is me, give from yourself, make us beleive, make the viewers be filled with moods in different orders... make a rollercoaster ride... you do not want to go to transition world, what we want is the contrasts that shake us up a bit? the different stuff? the black and white? For me it is so...

I really think our scene will die if we try to make more and more and more transition based demos, I really do think so... I really think it is getting a tad booooooring as fuck now too... AND the worst, one do fun stuff creating a routine, then one must do all that in such a great way after? It is like wasshing the car with a thoothbrush for me in a way... I just do not think it is any fun, do all you others out there love to sit and do fades and transitions more than the effects itself? Do you? because I want to know? Can we just make us be shocked more, feel love more, feel hate more, feel joy more.... Today it is so smooth and it is so nice and it is so cool but it is our death, just because we are so great at what we do so it gets boring in the long run... we have been in this scene for so long, let us try to talk about this? I know bepp and we are so great friends when it comes to demo creating and let us face it... we are the super democreators(we are the ones, we are the c64 scene and we are the strongest because I love jan, I love bob, I love mahoney... I love to mobb lars... and so on, they love me back in a way that I can feel in my life, it is totally great, we are family you see, we are the weird ones, the ones doing this, we are great!) still beating the life in something strange and do me a favour and not let me have a hard time here... I think it is the perfect demo to post this on because I, you and all know this is a insane great demo... you won and it is great... I salute you... Ask the coders, would it be cool to make the effects and not all the transitions? And will we break the hardware more than what we do... we need to do that... in my mind! I am just a fool, but you know what? I stand for me, I stand tall above normal, abnormal... and I ask... what do we do in order to make this scene really be something for us to have in the next 30 years too... we are the best in the world at what we do... Triad - you made a fantastic demo... I just want to use the time to make a disqussion about the lot...

I want to be in the old peoplehome and do c64 demos... with transitions that will not hapen! With edge and striking moodsetters that might happen!

just me, PAL

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2013-02-16 15:18

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

I agree with PAL, too much design and consistency and transition these days, also too much of the hires resolution nazism which makes effects boring because of what can be done in hires or multicolor and at 50fps has been done a zillion times.

Give me "in your face, my balls are bigger than your balls" demos, fast pace, cool effects, make me dizzy. Give me big pixels. Give me back the mid 90's :)

2013-02-16 15:40

Dano

Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 231

what's the problem with demos with a decent flow and design to it? does it take pressing space and killer effects to make jewels of demos?

after all everyone has his own style and does his thing differently. i don't think we're immitating eachother.

i could say revolved looks like sander involved..

and i could say that i don't like rough stuff. i don't really like this arty noise stuff that is totally the opposite of others by intention.

i like demos that please my eye, either with killer effects or with just a decent flow.

there will always guys who shift the state of art into other directions. and that's fine.

2013-02-16 18:33

Slammer

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 416

If a demo part is a present then the transitions is the wrapping. The wrapping is by no means unimportant - it can make a great product better or an average product feel more exclusive. Would you buy an expensive whisky, if it was shipped in a plastic bottle? Would you always spot high quality wine if it was in a carton?

So I wouldn't blame anybody for using wrapping. Instead valid complains could be that the present wasn't as good as expected or missing, or the wrapping was unoriginal, dull or predictable.

2013-02-16 18:44

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

Slammer: Would you like to see movies with 20% actual shots and action and story? or is the whole of the movie making industry right when they do NOT have 80% of their big motion pictures filled with sinus moving colors and smooth transitions? Would you like to see a actor blow the head of the bad dude or would you like to see a transition from a lame arse nosepicking scene over to a lame arse picking in the ear shoot, in slowmotion that is because they wait for the drive to load? I just ask? Because I want to see the great balls of fire and be blown away and not just look at paint dry! AND - I MUST SAY - It is great the first time, the seccond time it is kinda great too, the third time it is ok... the fourth time if made greater it is also ok... but man the fifth time... dane, you alone can not save the transition scene... you have done for so long now... you are insane... but now... let us see the cock in the pussy and not just the door-curtain blowing in the wind in the entrance of the room where they fuck and listening to sound of poundring inside behind there somewhere... let us violate the c64! Let's be barbarians and not just librarians!

2013-02-16 18:55

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089

I love smooth transitions! I also love transitionless Offence megademos!

Pal, so you think transitions are boring? thats fine you know ;)
You make it sound like everybody is focusing on transitions, you
even say they are killing the scene!

I beg to differ, I don't see any group truely focusing on it.
For a coder EoD set the standard with seriously cool fades and it
adds so much to the flow of a demo. Other coders got inspired by it
and some have built their own great transition fx.
And yes it's fun! Not boring!
Take CL13 and the trailblazer/vector/chessboard parts, all standalone
awesome effects, but having all those fluent transitions with
music-sync made it a total jawdropper.

It's not killing the scene, it's making it even more awesome!

Look at the DS13 demos, so much diversity, same thing with stuff
released in 2012.

Transitions are definitely not a must, but I applaud the ones
that put effort in em. Keep it up!

What I do find boring is a 4 disk demo without a siderequester!!!
hah! ;)

2013-02-16 19:02

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

But the people coding demos on the c-64 are so great, clever and insane and if they were actually coding effects rather than a year spent on transitions the effects would be so much greater... of course I am all wrong but I still believe that. Take the last cruizer part from ds... man it is insane! Why? I do not know, but maybe, just maybe because he made that and that only and not used 80% of his time moving the squares and lame arse line drawers and fill with a girly color and then blopp it to another girly color and then make some circles from the square and then make this and that and all the shit.... he just did it... BANG... in your face... in your arse.... in your fucking mind instantly and it were great.... ok... pixel here! Cruizer - you are a real man!! Hit hard and leave! You do not even do the small pillow talk session... you just fuck the shit out of us and boooommm your out of sight... not even trying to be nice, just a real man! Proud of you sir!

In all big corperations today one do outsorce the transition work... when disney make a big new movie they paint the key-frames and the people in india make the in-betweens - on the c64 disney is making the in-betweens and not get time for the keyframes!

2013-02-16 19:14

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089

I think Cruzer's single effect demo is super cool because Cruzer has mad skills! I think he should quit his job to focus on doing more great stuff ;))

So we are actually getting both and thats cool. if nobody did transitions, we'd lose that part of the spectrum.

2013-02-16 20:01

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

I think he has mad skillz too but also he do use his skillz at what he is best at... that is a big difference right there and some of my point... he just fuck you hard... (lol... i love this)

2013-02-16 20:26

Slammer

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 416

Pal: But isn't it more interesting focusing on what's missing. In your movie example - If you want action, then complain that there is too little action. If you want acting, then complain that there is too little acting.

A demo with only transitions doesn't do it for me. But a good transition leading to a great effect can really enhance the effect, so a general banning of transitions won't get my vote. Sometimes transitions can be too predictable, or too long, badly chosen or don't fit the context, but thats another case. I enjoy both demos with and without transitions, 'Safe VSP' being an example of the latter (Example carefully chosen not to be disqualified for promoting own interests)

2013-02-16 20:43

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705

Slammer and mixer, spot on. Creating transitions between part by part can take more time but still allows the coder to tweak individual parts. This is not too much a hindrance at all. Even just a fade to black and defade to next part makes the whole thing feel more slick and barely requires any time to code the inbetween

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