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2013-02-16 10:45

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

demos

READ WITH CARE AND WITH OPEN MIND:

Based on Revolved and demos like that - really great demos... but...

It is truly a beauty of a demo you have created and the hours, work and cleverness behind it must be massive!!!... Can I go beyond the normal standards here? OK? Cool... I just want to ask the c64 scene something that I really think so much about... what are we? What are the scene? Where do we want to be or where do we want to go? What if we become the producers of the all loving and polished no to argue and nothing to complain about? what is the scene then... I think this demo show some super powers in making something run smooth and so seamingless and so splendid... but where is the hard-on? Where is the humor? Where is the fun and loving bits? Where is the contrasts? Where is the black and white? Where is the FUN? When should I smile with sound and when should I cry? I meen this demo is so cool and a great piece til revolved logo is on screen and then the next effect is also cool.... then a line makes a splitt and the demo is insane cool... but after that... what is it really? For me it is people trying to make something that everyone will think is really great. It is so well made this demo so I am on thin ground here and I see that because I see the demo over and over and over again and I just envy the transition power in here and the colors and the fades and all but to me it is really mostly that... the plasma over the char squares are great also.... then the portrait part with the rotating letters, beautiful.... but so without sole... then the best part of the demo comes the rotating stuff.... from here and in it is for me just smooth moves and really beutiful work... but what I really ask is: Is this it? Is that what we are aiming for? The sphere movers are ofcourse beautiful and so cool...everything is really splendid in the demo!!! That is why I try to write this post as true as possible... how many demos like this will it take to kill our scene? We are part of something that we love and we love it because we are part of something that is NOT mainstream... so why do we push the productions to be mainstream? I meen, this is a fantastic demo, it really is and congratulations for the win, I really meen that and I hope you all can read my text in a way that is not hate, not bad or not silly, because I really meen this... Are we not men with our edge anymore? If we want to do the all perfect stuff for all humans on the planet earth, are we then not on the wrong platform??... I want to say something, want you to smile, to cry and to die because it is silly or so hard to grasp... I do not want to make smooth powerpoints with a cool sid tune on top... The cool DANE tune saves this demo even more for me even the demo in itself is so great... but the greatness is not the best for me... can I say this without beeing the worst arse in the scene? In a way I know my powers in making demos and also I know that we can make the transitions and make all blend so great but that is just not fun to do so again super thanx for your time on that, how many demos more would you like to do that on? ...maybe I just am all wrong but to me it is about effects and making some insane things on this machine and not just press the gausian blur button in photoshop and make it be so that everyone likes it... what about make someone puke... make them hate your demo... make them love it... make them be filled with anger... make them cry out of emotions, just a text like my text in Another beginning with the man in the window, it is me, give from yourself, make us beleive, make the viewers be filled with moods in different orders... make a rollercoaster ride... you do not want to go to transition world, what we want is the contrasts that shake us up a bit? the different stuff? the black and white? For me it is so...

I really think our scene will die if we try to make more and more and more transition based demos, I really do think so... I really think it is getting a tad booooooring as fuck now too... AND the worst, one do fun stuff creating a routine, then one must do all that in such a great way after? It is like wasshing the car with a thoothbrush for me in a way... I just do not think it is any fun, do all you others out there love to sit and do fades and transitions more than the effects itself? Do you? because I want to know? Can we just make us be shocked more, feel love more, feel hate more, feel joy more.... Today it is so smooth and it is so nice and it is so cool but it is our death, just because we are so great at what we do so it gets boring in the long run... we have been in this scene for so long, let us try to talk about this? I know bepp and we are so great friends when it comes to demo creating and let us face it... we are the super democreators(we are the ones, we are the c64 scene and we are the strongest because I love jan, I love bob, I love mahoney... I love to mobb lars... and so on, they love me back in a way that I can feel in my life, it is totally great, we are family you see, we are the weird ones, the ones doing this, we are great!) still beating the life in something strange and do me a favour and not let me have a hard time here... I think it is the perfect demo to post this on because I, you and all know this is a insane great demo... you won and it is great... I salute you... Ask the coders, would it be cool to make the effects and not all the transitions? And will we break the hardware more than what we do... we need to do that... in my mind! I am just a fool, but you know what? I stand for me, I stand tall above normal, abnormal... and I ask... what do we do in order to make this scene really be something for us to have in the next 30 years too... we are the best in the world at what we do... Triad - you made a fantastic demo... I just want to use the time to make a disqussion about the lot...

I want to be in the old peoplehome and do c64 demos... with transitions that will not hapen! With edge and striking moodsetters that might happen!

just me, PAL

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2013-02-16 19:02

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

But the people coding demos on the c-64 are so great, clever and insane and if they were actually coding effects rather than a year spent on transitions the effects would be so much greater... of course I am all wrong but I still believe that. Take the last cruizer part from ds... man it is insane! Why? I do not know, but maybe, just maybe because he made that and that only and not used 80% of his time moving the squares and lame arse line drawers and fill with a girly color and then blopp it to another girly color and then make some circles from the square and then make this and that and all the shit.... he just did it... BANG... in your face... in your arse.... in your fucking mind instantly and it were great.... ok... pixel here! Cruizer - you are a real man!! Hit hard and leave! You do not even do the small pillow talk session... you just fuck the shit out of us and boooommm your out of sight... not even trying to be nice, just a real man! Proud of you sir!

In all big corperations today one do outsorce the transition work... when disney make a big new movie they paint the key-frames and the people in india make the in-betweens - on the c64 disney is making the in-betweens and not get time for the keyframes!

2013-02-16 19:14

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089

I think Cruzer's single effect demo is super cool because Cruzer has mad skills! I think he should quit his job to focus on doing more great stuff ;))

So we are actually getting both and thats cool. if nobody did transitions, we'd lose that part of the spectrum.

2013-02-16 20:01

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

I think he has mad skillz too but also he do use his skillz at what he is best at... that is a big difference right there and some of my point... he just fuck you hard... (lol... i love this)

2013-02-16 20:26

Slammer

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 416

Pal: But isn't it more interesting focusing on what's missing. In your movie example - If you want action, then complain that there is too little action. If you want acting, then complain that there is too little acting.

A demo with only transitions doesn't do it for me. But a good transition leading to a great effect can really enhance the effect, so a general banning of transitions won't get my vote. Sometimes transitions can be too predictable, or too long, badly chosen or don't fit the context, but thats another case. I enjoy both demos with and without transitions, 'Safe VSP' being an example of the latter (Example carefully chosen not to be disqualified for promoting own interests)

2013-02-16 20:43

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705

Slammer and mixer, spot on. Creating transitions between part by part can take more time but still allows the coder to tweak individual parts. This is not too much a hindrance at all. Even just a fade to black and defade to next part makes the whole thing feel more slick and barely requires any time to code the inbetween

2013-02-16 20:49

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

You are wrong here... the transitions do take time and see it from a coders perspective... it do take much time and it do take time from the actual effect coding... but ofcourse if you are pantaloon you just did it before someone even thought of it in a way... but the hours... Like the part in matrix demo from bob... I want bob to code parts and effects... If you BOB code transitions I will kill you! I will strangle you with your utlagte tarm!

2013-02-16 20:58

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

Sorry to the ulagte-tarm society if I skweeze their tarm on my last comment

2013-02-16 20:59

raven
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137

Like others said, I think its purely a matter of personal taste.
There are trends in the scene, always have been, right now its transition overdose, but thats not a bad thing if done right (which means something more creative than boring raster transitions).

I also have to respond to Oswald - I consider the late 90's the "dark ages" of C64 demos, full of ugly attempts to copy popular PC effects in super lo-res, so happy that time is over! :)

From a coder's perspective (although its been a while since I've actually done anything new) I tend to think about transitions while working on the effects.
Yes, working on transitions & linking of a fast-pace trackmo takes lots of time & effort, but its an interesting challenge, at least for me.

2013-02-16 21:00

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705

I see it from a coders perspective as well :-) transitions take nowhere near as long as coding the actual parts. Even the non fade to black ones only require previous screen content in next part for testing purposes and then to remove and link after. Which is merely interleaving previous code with next tgen removing after.

2013-02-16 21:12

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

You are wrong again... 16 sides of demo parts in two years say it all... so maybe it is all lame, nothing you like in our stuff, maybe it is all shit, just waste of time and totally wasted for you, but it is not for us or me... I can look at one part out of the 200 parts we made and released and I enjoy every single one... massive... but with transitions totally super smooth way... my best guess is 5 sides... then again... and less in each part. Maybe that is what the scene want? I do not know! I know I want the strawberry and not the leaves... but again, i am just a fool... I simply know that some of the strange demos on here made me come back to the c64 after 19 years away... this is the scene... dansa in is the shit! PC demos... who cares nowadays, it is just boooring... ok it can be great if there is a story but maaaaannnn they look so simular... why do we want to simuralise our efforts?

A woman wants to be fucked, cared for and be loved, she do not really care about what your make-up brand is!

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