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Honesty
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 121 |
0ldschool demos
Dah text had not been saved but hasd no time to write again...
Fuck
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... 26 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
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RRR
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 21 |
Quote: especially oxyron demos ;D
Logo->effect->scroll ;D
<hides>
ROCKS! ;-) |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
>And u pointed out yourself u try to transport effects from pc to 64 when they look good!
No, I spoke about what motivates me to code and since I hardly ever watch pc demos apart from when Im at a party, PC effects are not a big influence.
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
plasma si teh shite! |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
Just a quick, oversimplified view..
I reckon it is some coders' challenge to put competences to the test to improve and combine novel techniques. As such, occasional new VIC stunts bring about or performance improvements instigate avalanches of demos with (again) improved or merely copied effects. This is only to later die out as the emerging effects become part of most coders' skills and appreciation drops.
More or less the same occurs as far as design is concerned. Occasionally new design conceptions trickle down from the outside world or are dreamt up in combination with unique limitations.
It might turn out that the progressing programming skills frontier facilitates new design-related effects, or even some design requirement bring about technical innovations.
Especially the basic effect-scroller-logo-music design-paradigm has proven persistent (self-reinforced) due to the fact that not only each of the participants had an apparent contribution (which is important for ego-fulfillment, especially for teenagers), but also the lion-share of the youngsters spanning the scene were geographically apart and had limited resources, hence the discreteness of contributions.
Some might claim the status quo is that design-oriented demomakers believe code is a means to an end, while effect-oriented demomakers perceive code as the very end. I argue the distinction in demomakers is getting vaguer by the year due to the development of the very demomaker personality and resources available, the self-reinforcing current variety of design paradigms (as argued by Iopop) and the strong emphasis on originality and novelty.
With progressing integration of classical artisanal demomaking skills, either by multilateral talents (which is being appreciated and hence stimulated), or by extensive communication of demomakers able and willing to put effort in synthesizing talents - e.g. HCL/Dane, Iopop/Twoflower, Hollowman/Puterman, Krill/Fanta, Hein/Ben (erhm) to name only just a few -, the design/code space is explored in less apparent directions. I believe this tendency is persistent for now, however, due to bifurcation effects for clear distinctions, also the oldskool demoscene is likely to be kept alive by a few zealots.. |
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Zeus
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 16 |
There are always "à la mode" effects that are kinda "mainstream" effects. Maybe not plasma but the technique behind it (4*4) is now mainstream as the raster bars were back in the late 80th/ early 90th.
However there are many grey areas between the black and white schema rasters and plasma. Raster bars can be used as a way to show good coding skills when it comes to splits, no border etc. That´s smoething that maybe only coders can judge while design and a good look doesn´t need great coding skills.
Another thing is that you should not overlook the fact that the so called raster demos were mostly scroll demos. And we were all kinda scroll readers. I see a link between the disappearance of the long scroll texts and the beginning of the usage of effects and design instead of giving the audience something to read and put some rasters above the scroll. Maybe if you see it this way the discussion becomes another point of view. Most demos in the 80th started with a scroller. ;)
Personally I am not bored by the demo scene at all. I still like raster demos as well as plasma demos. The thing is that the demo itself is what I wanna see whatever (almost) it looks like. Ask people why they look Formula 1 with the cars driving in a circle. Everybody has seen cars before. Same goes for soccer. Why the hell do you watch for years (!) now in the stadium or via TV 22 people running behind a ball? Same goes for demos. If I would be bored by anykind of a effetual overkill I am prolly wrong in the demo scene. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
From a 2005 point-of-view it is easy to say that rasterbar demos are not annoying since there are so many non-rasterbar demos out :) |
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Zeus
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 16 |
Quote: From a 2005 point-of-view it is easy to say that rasterbar demos are not annoying since there are so many non-rasterbar demos out :)
Watch raster bar demos with a mon and you (sometimes) notice the beauty of those demos. ;) |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
The reason why the scroller or text in general have disapperared is a result of the ease of communictaion with help from email/irc/CSDb/etc. This in contrast to the limited resoucres mentioned by Ben.
In the early years the only way to "communicate" to the scene was via demos/intros. If you werent greeted you didnt exist. Meaning you had to fill the demos with news, memberstatus, addresses, greetings and current events in general. Today we have other means of communictaion and the motivation to display the memberstatus in the latest demo is rather low.
This phenomenon is quite noticable in earlier demos aswell, from groups that have gained so much respect/confidence from the scene that they dont need the scroller with "network-creating" text. Wonderland 10/Censor is quite a good example of this. Ofcourse, it has scrollers but not in the sense of reaching out to the scene and creating networks. |
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Honesty
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 121 |
I agree with the opinion that scrollers were done in the past to transport a message and sure we had other resources today to comunicate.
But hey didn´t we all live a bit in the past?Or why should 30 years and older >daddies< still handle with a 64?
Coz for me it was a nice time and this computer was a part of it.
This is why i start over to code,can´t get lotsa SidS out of my head.
As i quited in 1994 the trackmo scene was just in the beginning so i missed lots of em.
Demos for my view were the so called spacebar demos and there lotsa nice of em.
And sure maybe rasters are lame 2day but in the past ppl spend money to get the source code for a well timed raster or even ripped it from other guys.
And it all started at the beginning.But no one would dare to call the guys lame who invented this effects.
And due to the possibility that we can make more conversation through the technical raise itis easier to gather infos and get one or two hints by other coders when u don´t know how to solve a problem.
But remember this wasn´t that easy in the past like it is 2day and ppl grow older also their knowledge grow aswell.
But would somebody of u think that he can code the effects he did today 15 or 20 years ago?
I don´t think so and this is why the performance of ppl 15 or 20 years ago are awesome.
2day u look into a magazine or got a tutorialin the net how to do something but this was impossible at this time...
Ok that´s enough for now,so later.
Honesty
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Nice post Honesty!
Somehow I feel connected to what you´re trying to say.
The demo scene has changed since I was part of it.
I guess it is quite a normal ´evolution´ as everybody wants to show something different.
Anyway,I like the "press space" demos.
My next release is in the same ´style´ ;)
Fortunately,I remembered most of the way I coded things in the early 90`s.
But,it was never that sophisticated to begin with. ;)
Regarding scrolltexts..
It might have been necessary in the past,but I still think it sux when there is no decent scroller in a demo.
It makes it feel like tv-shows,no personal message at all!!
If you make a scroll,use it! ;)
Greetinxx Honesty for starting this!
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