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Forums > C64 Coding > And people wonder why...

2005-06-07 20:49

Wanderer
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478

And people wonder why...

I sometimes feel that the scene is 'lame'. I'm not going to get into that argument all over again.

This time, I'm blowing off steam. I released two games on the C64. One was called Jailbreak and the other called Virus. Both were basic attempts at a game, nothing extraordinary.

Years later, in 2005, I would come back to the scene to try to find some of my old releases. I found that Jailbreak had been "cracked" by another group and trained.

Jailbreak was never protected to begin with. It was uploaded to all of the warez boards when I released it. It even says "RFO" for Rage for Order on the wall of the prison. The level packing looks like shit and it spends more time processing the packer that the original did. The original was already packed (individual files crunched) and did not need a level packer.

Yet it was re-released with a trainer. Back in my day we would never re-release anything that had already been put out.

I also found Virus (thanks to Sailor of Triad). And low and behold, someone informs me there is a Virus 2. I checked and sure enough there is a sequal to my game.

EPIC (Warlord and Mendrake) managed to "crack" and "train" this game. Here's the kicker... it's the same game as mine, exactly. All they did was change the music and a few sprites. How does a public domain game with no protection get "CRACKED" ? And the trainer is the exact same trainer I had INCLUDED in the game to prevent people from re-releasing.

This is the second program I've put out that, years later, I would find "cracked and trained" when there was no crack, and using my own trainer. Changing sprites and music and calling it a sequel is pathetic.

Can you now see why I feel the way I do about the scene at times? If you're going to do this, at least don't pretend you cracked anything and leave the intro on from the person who wrote it.

Oh and guess what, Virus 2 was NTSC fixed by EPIC too. That's good because as I live in Canada and my c64 is NTSC, I would sure hate to release a game that didn't work on NTSC machines to begin with LMFAO.

And less than 24 hours after I found a copy of Virus and uploaded it to CSDB, some group re-released it in less than 24 hours with one more trainer.

It's pretty sad when a programmer has to include every single conceivable trainer known to man in his work, for if he doesn't someone will come along and strip off his intro and put it out with another trainer.

If I wanted Jailbreak +20 and Virus +22 I would have written it that way. :)

If the scene has not (partially) become lame, someone tell me how you can crack and train a public domain game, twice, taken from a BBS and already trained? When I left the scene this was unheard of, and today it seems the norm.

http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/c64

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2005-06-08 19:28

Wanderer
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478

Oh my... so much to address here.

As a cracker, I'm not in a position to consider myself a victim. I don't consider myself a victim anyways.

As a person who wrote three games for immediate release to the scene, complete with intro and with absolutely no protection, I do think I am in a position to complain.

TMR: I'm glad you feel better about your code. The game was meant for a magazine and had to be short in size. I've seen a lot worse in commercial releases.

Mason: We already spoke about Jailbreak, I didn't forget. But then I saw the Unicess "crack" of Catch 'Em.

Now I can fully understand groups taking ORIGINALS from the store and releasing them. However taking a SCENER'S GAME, without any protection and saying "hey I cracked this" is just wrong and pathetic. Someone had to have taken it from a BBS because it was never in any store, and slap their intro on it. Who knows how these groups cracked a 17 block file with no protection. Scroll text in the game indicates it was originally taken from a demo)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people cracking and releasing things. But don't take other people's games (which were really more like demos to me) and pretend to have cracked them. The game was already released to the boards, it was already out in the 'scene'.

Put yourself in my shoes. You write a game and release it to the public. Years later you find that some guy named Mendrake from EPIC claims to have cracked and trained it. He simply sector edits the original trainer that YOU the programmer made. You also see that another group claims to have "cracked" this game and re-released it under their own label.

Is it a big deal 13 years after the fact? No it is not.

Do you want to give a verbal bitch slap to those who released it? You know you do.

Finally to the guy who said that it was unfair to say the current scene was "lame" based on what happened in 1992 (13 years ago). Two thoughts come to mind. I despise the word "lame". Sometimes I will it because no other pronoun will do. The second thought is, you're right that it is unfair. The first line of my original post does say, " I SOMETIMES feel that the scene is 'lame'."

I'm sure any programmer on here will see where I'm coming from and can relate. If you can't relate, life does go on. Again, thanks for hearing me out :)

2005-06-08 19:55

The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342

Wanderer:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people cracking and releasing things.

Hmmmm I'll cut and paste these words and keep them safe in my HDD, just in case :)

2005-06-08 20:34

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

Well, the way I see it, doesn't matter if you're a scener / cracker and make a game, for that moment of time you become a gamedeveloper and therefore your work eligible for taking. Especially nowadays you've got to have understanding ... there's not terribly much usable material apart from gold-releases.

Though I find it funny to already embed a trainer-screen in the original, of course it's not terribly different from embedding cheatstrings to be typed in the titlescreen or hiscorelist, but still, to me it feels like "cracking your own game"

Btw. whenever scene feels lame, it's time to release more stuff yourself :)

2005-06-08 22:00

Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510

That's really nothing fundamentally new, they do it with Richard's games all the time. ;-)
Not that I appreciate these so called "cracks" nowadays, they're absolutely pointless. But each to their own.

2005-06-08 22:12

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Paco/Bros was really lame.

And those of you who don't get that, are lame too ;)

2005-06-08 22:29

Slartibartfast
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230

Poor hungry troll. Feed the troll.

2005-06-08 23:23

Wanderer
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478

Quote: Well, the way I see it, doesn't matter if you're a scener / cracker and make a game, for that moment of time you become a gamedeveloper and therefore your work eligible for taking. Especially nowadays you've got to have understanding ... there's not terribly much usable material apart from gold-releases.

Though I find it funny to already embed a trainer-screen in the original, of course it's not terribly different from embedding cheatstrings to be typed in the titlescreen or hiscorelist, but still, to me it feels like "cracking your own game"

Btw. whenever scene feels lame, it's time to release more stuff yourself :)

Time to put this puppy to rest.

Slarti: A troll is one who instigates and provokes others. In this case, it was someone else's actions. I suggest perhaps laying off the Javex tequila shooters and massive doses of hash. Say no to drugs!!!

Responding to the person above, yes yes yes. I fully agree that once you release something you open your work up for the taking. I believe in this concept.

In the case of Unicess I told them they were more than welcome to level pack it and train Jailbreak. It puzzles me why it was released as a 'crack' though. Then I found their 'crack' of a tiny 17 block game demo. Nothing to crack there. It baffles me why any group would take my intro off a 17 block crap game only to re-release it and say they cracked it. Must have been a slow month for Unicess.

As for EPIC, absolutely pathetic. Stripped my intro, changed the sprites, added different music and called it "Virus 2" which they "cracked and trained". And they used my own trainer as their own.

I don't mind if you want to look at the code, change stuff. But when you put it out under your own groups label, after I've already done the same (and I'm the author of it) and you claim to have cracked that you didn't, you can expect some reactions.

Depredators also released one of my games as a "crack".

Maybe when I start protecting my games you can re-release them as a crack in your own country but until then, get a life.

Okay that is all I wish to say. And as you respond keep this in mind. Say you wrote a game and someone came along, stripped your intro and put it out as their own crack when you know it wasn't... wouldn't you be a little pissed? It's not like they grabbed it from off of a software store's shelf. You already did the job of releasing it to the scene and the group that re-released it did nothing to the end product.

2005-06-08 23:55

Derision

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 69

Unfortunately, this is the way the scene goes these days. The crackers are desperate for anything to come out. Personally, I don't see a need to crack SEUCK games -- or even to play them most of the time -- but that's the way things go.

Incidentally, NTSC-fixing an NTSC release is one of the most hillarious things I've ever heard.

I don't pretend to be any kind of a cracker (except perhaps of the ethnic variety), but I understand both sides of this argument. The crackers need something to crack, but seriously... even just ten years ago releasing PD games was "below" a lot of groups, and I recall a lot of bitching on the boards when stuff like that was put out. And to take a trainer that's already there and just... futz with it a tad and say you did it... well, I don't think that's indicitive of the entire scene, but simply of the individual that did it, and yeah, I agree that it's a load of shite. I'd probably unleash a verbal smackdown, too.

Just my bit. I'll go and eat now. Carry on, Gents.

2005-06-09 01:22

T.M.R
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749

Derision: "Unfortunately, this is the way the scene goes these days. The crackers are desperate for anything to come out. [...] The crackers need something to crack, but seriously... even just ten years ago releasing PD games was "below" a lot of groups, and I recall a lot of bitching on the boards when stuff like that was put out."

Only problem with saying that is that we're not talking about these days - the cracks in question were done in the late 1980s and early 1990s, so this did indeed happen over ten years ago and we're talking groups like Epic who weren't nobodies in the scene. That said, Mayhem used to churn out SEUCK "cracks" like there was no tomorrow, people like Avantgarde and so forth did Commodore Format covermount games and getting a nearly complete preview from the programmer or the software house still got called a crack by the likes of Ikari or RTI despite the ori turning up unprotected most of the time.

2005-06-09 07:11

V-12

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206

"However taking a SCENER'S GAME, without any protection and saying "hey I cracked this" is just wrong and pathetic."

Absolutely right, but you Wanderer just can't do nothing. I experienced the same with my own game so I know how you feel. Some people growing up from that, some not.

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