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Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
The Scene as it was.
I was in The Scene, therefore, I know what went on in the C64 scene. I see TOP GROUPS listed over there on the side display and I see DD listed #2, okay, I can buy alittle of that, Robin was a good dude, but there was only 1 number UNO in all of the C64 scene... and as much as I hate to admit, it was ESI, ONLY. Far and away, this group did more for C64 than any group, ever. Fairlight and Red Sector were a close second but not even close to Eaglesoft. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: tlr, small town in the communist block, no papermags, no computer stores, etc. I only knew what my friends knew. I only had the games my friends had, etc.
Didn't think about that...
86-ish where I lived, we drowned in cracks, demos, german/american/swedish computer mags and books.
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Quote: Oswald: that's cause they had dolphindos/rapidos :)
Icon: you are Icon/REM right?
hehe
Yes and it would be very nice if you could light up my and maby some others mind with a) what are you meaning by "pretending to be my brother" and b) what are the lies you refer to that you accuse me of? Hope you realize that its very impolite to grab accusations from thin air and not even tell whats behind the nonsens. I can very easy prove to you every single line that is written in my profile and that its me. I feel it VERY disturbing that you even question my reability, especaliy when you not even try to come with ANY background or theory. Its just plain insane if you ask me. |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Thx Icon and Fungus for your out-of-topic talk in here :) |
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The Shark-INC
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 24 |
Okay, now this is getting fun... :) Let's look at the various arguments.
The I-Was-There-and-You-Weren't Argument: This can be valid in cases that aren't well documented, such as how it was on the BBSes. But for releases, this has to be the most archived part of the C64. The releases speak for themselves at this point. Plus, I was there too. But if one is to use this argument to disqualify other's opinions, then how can Adam dismiss the scene post 1988 when he wasn't present? You can't have it both ways.
The You-Better-Shut-Up-Since-You-Never-Cracked Argument: You know I respect you Fungus, so don't get too worked up about my level packing comment. But does one have to know how to crack to understand that ESI releases were easily being level packed by Europeans? I'm not talking rocket science here or the intricate details of a protection scheme. Yes, Mitch did believe in leaving the crack as the original (except for that ESI intro, cough...), and I think that he was able to get away with with this approach due to the lack of competition.
Moving on, I am suppose to believe that only 1-2 Europeans could have cracked American protection? Then why was it that some no-name Hungarian was able to move to the USA and chew up American protection just as easily as any other cracker? Of course, that no-name was Horizon, and he eventually went on to make a huge name for himself in NEC. And he level packed and added fast loaders. :)
I have great respect for ESI, and you can't have a top five list with out them, but I certainly am not in awe of them. I just think they've been over hyped and given far too much credit. And perhaps that was one of their greatest accomplishments: spinning the ESI name and mystique. They get a #1 on marketing, that's for sure.
The Shark |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Wanna see more hype? then check the complete history, interviews, everything at:
http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/recollection/?load=online&issu..
Interestingly I've approached several "DEMO" groups in the hope of creating a similar article to the Eagle Soft one (f.e. CREST) but no takers so far. No wonder cracking groups get all the hype when the legal guys are not as easily approachable! (at least from an editors point-of-view; not much luck on the legal side so far). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
As Hein said. The scene is 25 years. Old groups, crackers, coders, deserve respect for being pioneers in cracking, democoding, phreaking (whatever reason we come up with), but charts are about competition. If they aren't competing today, might not get into today's charts. If there were some alltime charts then there could be alltime best gruops.
Everybody agrees that Ellvis is the king. But not everyobdy is listening to his music. There are many other kings.. like Michael Jackson, James Brown, Beatles, Luis Armstrong... U2.. .. etc.. but that doesn't assure them automatic position in pop-music-charts..
roman |
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Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
Ok, back to the original post's scope, I agree with Nightlord there that it is not quite relevant to discuss Top Groups in this manner, unless there are separate charts such as Top Demo Groups and Top Cracking Groups, as was the way with the diskmags.
Otherwise, the topic is just floating to random points.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Ok, back to the original post's scope, I agree with Nightlord there that it is not quite relevant to discuss Top Groups in this manner, unless there are separate charts such as Top Demo Groups and Top Cracking Groups, as was the way with the diskmags.
Otherwise, the topic is just floating to random points.
Top cracking groups:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/toplist.php?type=group&subtype=%282%..
Top demogroups:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/toplist.php?type=group&subtype=%281%..
Also, I think an overall chart does have its merits. It's all about what groups made the best impression on the sceners, dependless of their specialty. |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
thanks for that link TDJ.
But to me it just shows what I already thought..
the CSDB votes represent very little.
for example Commando Frontier on place 4 with only 6 people having voted on them whilst Crazy on place 71, or RSI on 73 or NEI on 79, Exodus on 80.. etc. just to mention a few.
It has very little to do with the impact a group made and everything to do with the way, or better said how little people actually vote on csdb.
Lets say 100 people where asked to vote on all the groups in this list, I am sure it would look very, very different.
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
What about a Pouet-like view on the current votes? 10-6 = thumb up, 5-3 = piggy, 2-1 = thumb down. (Assuming that IF somebody votes he is atleast liking the production enough to vote for it) |
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