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Twynn
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 9 |
Half pixel shifting
First of all: It's good to see that the C64-scene is still alive.
I kinda left the scene about ten years ago but after accidently crossing this site I got interested a bit again. Downloaded some demo's to see what happened since I left and I was quite amazed. Not those ugly 8x8 modes anymore, but good looking demos.
Anyway, when I was watching krestage I saw this intro for each demopart which used this high-resolution text which is said to use half pixel shifting? I'm still familiar with the normal vic-tricks, but this one made me curious.
Now I wonder how this is done. Is it just a visual trick or has the vic really some possibility to do half pixel movements or something? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Well, they're not trying to *be* IFLI because the hardware smooth scroll on the A8 has half the resolution of the C64 anyway - they're trying to be multicolour with better colour depth and, if you'd done a little research, that's a major leap for the hardware considering the limits. Remember the A8 is three years older than the C64, it's hardly a fair comparison in the same way that putting a C64 up against a CPC+ isn't fair. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Well, C64 rules anyway.. what i have seen on the Atari (imagery wise) cannot match the c64
Although the atari is still an amazing machine (similar but very different to amiga in some ways) - same developers?? I think Jay Minor was partly responsible for the hardware design?? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Miner's team helped build the A8 series yes, that's why it has that annoying "sprites are full screen height" design like the Amiga and indeed the VCS!
The display list/DLI system is useful and bears a vague resemblance to the copper on Amiga but without the seperate CPU, it's possible to mix and match screen modes as the display draws without having to wait for rasterlines and splitting perfectly, the hardware does it all for you. Similarly, writing to wsync halts the processor until the start of the next line so a rasterbar routine is as easy as lda colours,x / sta wsync / sta colbgnd
The only down side is that it's demo scene didn't take off like the C64 so there's less examples of the improbable out there and something like G2F has only evolved recently. That should've happened ten to fifteen years ago, really...
For graphical capabilities, you might want to check out DFLI on the 264 series as well; essentially it's 8x2 pixel attribute cells on hi-res, 320x200 pixel display with a 121 colour palette. It's not been done to my knowledge, but IDFLI is possible too; IFLI with the colour changes every other scanline (two badlines on the 264 hardware) and again that 121 colour palette... |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Oh and sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread... =-) |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
I have seen examples of FLI type modes on 264 and it looks quite amazing. It's true that the C64 demo scene was more active, therefore possiblity of more inventions etc...
Not sure if there are any more vic trickery left on C64 (although heavy usage of illegal opcodes may be the only thing left) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
illegal opcodes? POLICE! |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
i think i can claim the only hand-drawn DFLI image to date... and that was a pain in the arse, since i didn't have an editor! |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 359 |
The problem with that "half-pixel-shifting" is, that
the picture must scroll.
You you can never do real half pixels.
The effect doesnt make sense without you eyes and your brain.
Monte Carlotta
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: The problem with that "half-pixel-shifting" is, that
the picture must scroll.
You you can never do real half pixels.
The effect doesnt make sense without you eyes and your brain.
Monte Carlotta
Contrary to all those other demo effects that you can enjoy with your eyes closed and your brain switched off. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quote: Contrary to all those other demo effects that you can enjoy with your eyes closed and your brain switched off.
time for someone to port the imaginary demo/melon dezign to c64 |
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