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Twynn
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 9 |
Half pixel shifting
First of all: It's good to see that the C64-scene is still alive.
I kinda left the scene about ten years ago but after accidently crossing this site I got interested a bit again. Downloaded some demo's to see what happened since I left and I was quite amazed. Not those ugly 8x8 modes anymore, but good looking demos.
Anyway, when I was watching krestage I saw this intro for each demopart which used this high-resolution text which is said to use half pixel shifting? I'm still familiar with the normal vic-tricks, but this one made me curious.
Now I wonder how this is done. Is it just a visual trick or has the vic really some possibility to do half pixel movements or something? |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: The problem with that "half-pixel-shifting" is, that
the picture must scroll.
You you can never do real half pixels.
The effect doesnt make sense without you eyes and your brain.
Monte Carlotta
Actually it is possible to make the scanlines move a bit on some TV sets by simply flashing some colors. E.g. if you have some gfx in the middle of the screen and a big solid bar on top of the screen flashing between black and white, the gfx in the middle will move a bit up/down.
How much it moves of course varies a lot from TV to TV, so it would be pretty hard to use for anything useful. But maybe if the user was prompted to calibrate it first :-) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: "Reticulate" by SCG was, as far as I know, the first 64 demo to use interlace effects. It was released in 1988. There is a scroller that utilizes the "half-pixel-shift" effect.
Reticulate
"Our pixels are smaller than yours"
Hadn't seen that demo before, but that scroller for sure is a half-pixel one. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: I have seen examples of FLI type modes on 264 and it looks quite amazing. It's true that the C64 demo scene was more active, therefore possiblity of more inventions etc...
Not sure if there are any more vic trickery left on C64 (although heavy usage of illegal opcodes may be the only thing left)
There are, trust me, I got plenty of unreleased routines lying around. Whether or not any of them introduce completely new VIC tricks can of course always be debated, but it's certainly possible to make new VIC-based effects. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
all effects are vic based, except sound effects :) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: all effects are vic based, except sound effects :)
VIC-trickery based then ;) |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: There are, trust me, I got plenty of unreleased routines lying around. Whether or not any of them introduce completely new VIC tricks can of course always be debated, but it's certainly possible to make new VIC-based effects.
Well, there certainly are some effects left to discover, but you'd be hard pressed to uncover more undocumented features like FLD, FLI, sprite stretching etc. |
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Twynn
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 9 |
Quote: Well, there certainly are some effects left to discover, but you'd be hard pressed to uncover more undocumented features like FLD, FLI, sprite stretching etc.
Well, actually FLI is also not an undocumeted feature. Just normal vic-usage. It's just that someone has to think about it and realize what is possible. And maybe cruzer has also thought about something and worked it out. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote:
Well, actually FLI is also not an undocumeted feature. Just normal vic-usage. It's just that someone has to think about it and realize what is possible. And maybe cruzer has also thought about something and worked it out.
Badline at will sure is undocumented, no? I haven't read any official VIC-II specs, but I don't think they'd include such hacks... |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: Well, there certainly are some effects left to discover, but you'd be hard pressed to uncover more undocumented features like FLD, FLI, sprite stretching etc.
What is a "feature" anyway? Is FLI really an undocumented VIC-feature, when the processor has to be involved at every line? All the VIC chip does is just updating the bitmap colors whenever there is a badline, like it always does in bitmap mode.
Guess we could discuss what a "feature" is for ages (there was a thread like that some time ago) but I don't really think it's that interesting.
What really counts is what appears on the screen, and there's definitely lots of effects left to do, which rely more or less on VIC-trickery, including improvements of existing tricks, and even stuff that some might say would qualify for a new feature/gfx mode/etc. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Give us a clue.., new graphic modes, etc etc |
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