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Darkus
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 8 |
Coding for beginners
I`ve been searching the net for assembler guides and applications but I hoping someone can recommend the best guides and programs I should use for starting out - plus are there any issues with using emulators only ? Anyone who may answer these questions, please bare in mind I know very little about the C64 platform at this stage :) |
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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Darkus,
I have used mostly Turbo Assembler which is great. If you are starting out though it is best to choose your favorite cartridge; Action Replay, Super Snapshot, etc and practice with a plain ML monitor. This method is the hardest and will give you a more thorough understanding of your 64. There are new assemblers released too which are said to be good like the kick assembler.
TS |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 902 |
About recommending assemblers : I always use 64tass, simply because it is (IMO) the simplest that is available.
About coding on emulators : There are some 'quirks' that emulators sometimes do not emulate correctly, however : you will be hard pressed to notice any if you're starting with coding.
I recommend the latest VICE to test your codes, and the latest HoXS for inbetween tests. Hoxs is definately the better emulator, but is a lot less 'usable' (at least to me).
Hoxs is much slower (the price you pay for better emulation) but it will emulate almost anything you throw at it. A big disadvantage of Hoxs (IMO) is the missing cartridge emulation, which simply makes it a lot harder to debug things and I also miss the fastloader.. (I have my own version of Jiffydos as the roms in Hoxs to make up for it a bit..). In the end : use hoxs to test milestones in your code, but not for every test.
Also, I'd recommend to write your first program directly in the Monitor of a cartridge like Action Replay, you will be much closer to the machine and it's simply nice ;)
When you manage to get your first programs to run and work, you can switch to assemblers. (the reason to write directly in monitor is that you are very close to the memory, and you kind-of distance yourself from what-byte-is-where when using assemblers (at least for the code itself))
Good luck! |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quoting WVLA big disadvantage of Hoxs (IMO) is the missing cartridge emulation, which simply makes it a lot harder to debug things and I also miss the fastloader..
Don't forget the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides, as well. Makes development a breeze. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
I agree with WVL on using a monitor first.
But it really wont matter if you use vice or hoxs or whatever emu (if any).
The only things not emulated well is behavior that is non-intuitive anyway.
A rule of thumb: dont assume pre-settings of emulators to be valid on real thing (like memory beeing preset as 00 or FF etc).
That's all.
I use acme. Its plain, direct and mostly TASS compatible.
Also available for many platforms.
Dont even try to code in vice-Monitor. It may be nice (as in better than nothing) to debug but not to code in.
Forgive the command-style tone of mine, all this is just my idea/exp of it.
Code on,
enthusi |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Radiantx wrote:
Quote:the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides I know where the normal VICE monitor is... but where's the 'excellent' one? ;-) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 902 |
vice monitor is ok for debugging, but for coding? nah.. Maybe TMR would like it :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Radiantx wrote:
Quote:the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides I know where the normal VICE monitor is... but where's the 'excellent' one? ;-)
Let me guess: you probably don't use the professional Vice version?
Anywhoo, I guess starting in monitor is the right way to go, I myself did all my parts pre-Focus in it. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: Let me guess: you probably don't use the professional Vice version?
Anywhoo, I guess starting in monitor is the right way to go, I myself did all my parts pre-Focus in it.
surely a monitor is a good way to start, but Vicemon is a bit masochistic imho.
FCIII monitor ftw.
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 722 |
I find ACME suits my needs, especially after a couple of tweaks to allow it to output warnings in Microsoft Visual Studio format. This lets me build in the IDE and press F4 to jump to reported warnings/errors. I've found using a nice modern IDE with source control really helps improve the C64 coding experience. :)
I also quite like debugging in VICE and altered ACME to output labels in VICE debugger format. When the PRG loads just load the labels in the debugger and then the disassembly is much easier to read. I did think about tweaking VICE to automatically load labels if it detected the file existed when loading a PRG with the same file name, but never got around to it. An alternative would be to write a debugger hook back to Visual Studio to enable me to do breakpoints and source single stepping, but that is also a much larger project. ;)
I've uploaded the tweaked ACME sources and a build here. http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:tool_sources#sources_for..
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
These advices are all very good, but don't forget the most important thing - eat/drink lots of caffeinated stuff, otherwise you'll never have the drive you need to try, try and try again thousands of times over until you figure out how to do something decent.
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