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2008-10-30 22:41

Kickback

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97

What makes a demo? Really?

Looking at all the talk about the EoD and it being the "best" demo to date on the c64 brings up a topic I was throwing around in my head for sometime now.

Before I start congratz BD for the great demo and the hard work that you guys put into it. A very good product indeed to date on the c64.

I admit I was pounding the keyboard/website every day to finally get my hands on this. Like a piece of smack ready to light it up. Admit it everyone, YOU was one of those guys to pound on CSDB's doors looking for it.

But as I watched the demo I noticed something, I remember some demos back HCL said something to the fact that he refuses to do any PC type effects on this system. (This was some years ago). Which me being an old geezer and love the c64 stylish demos was happy to hear this.

But as the years went on and times have changed so has the demos. As I look around now most demos are more PC stylish instead of the c64ish that most have come to know. I think this is why some people say that this demo isn't thee "best" on the c64.

Which I can agree because everyone has there own tastes when it comes to demos. So now when I look at demos, I guess we can say retro demos compared to the demos of today, can you really compare them? And say well that is better, and this one is better.

I know there is ALOT of geezers out there my age and older then me and I think they can relate to this? I don't believe most "newer?" guys can relate to it.

Anyway, my question is what really makes a demo? If I have vectors in my demo and the next guy has some interlaced rasters, is the vector demo better? Yes yes I know what you will say, well it comes down to how its presented?

Ok so does presentation beat out technique/technical or is it visa versa? Or is it combination? I seen alot of talk about NW2 and how it just didn't have that "graham" twist to it? Graham meaning? Vectors?

I'm not slashin on anyone or anybody, like I said this question is something I kicked around upstairs in my head for awhile and I think maybe now is a great time to ask it?

Anyone?

... 22 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2008-10-31 00:41

Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647

Give me a call when you have settled this question once and for all, in a zillion years or so, okay? ;)

2008-10-31 01:03

The Phantom

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360

I think what makes a demo...

Lack of hitting space, #1!!!

Presentation. The flow of the demo, how well the music and graphics go with the code.

Things that make you're eyes grow a couple sizes larger, or even a routine that you've never thought possible on the c64.

Sometimes, user interaction (joystick/keyboard controls) make it that much nicer.

To call a demo "the best" is simply based on that particular users experience when watching the demo.

EoD made me smile, wonder and feel amazed. It made me feel as if the c64 had no limits and anticipated the next routine .

It was an amazing experience, but there are still things I've seen 8 years ago, that I haven't seen anybody else do, which makes that demo, a demo.

2008-10-31 08:27

Cruzer

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048

What matters to me is the wow-effect you get when seeing something that hasn't been done before, that you might even have thought was impossible. This can be a new effect, a new gfx style, or even a cool tune. EoD was perfect in every aspect according to my taste, but what really gave it the "can't be done" feeling was the pace of it, which felt like a storm of effects, that seemingly didn't need any time to load or init, and to me that seems pretty out of this world considering how slow the c64 and especially the 1541 is. The only thing I can think of that comes close has been some onefilers like Dawnfall, but this went on for 15 minutes, so that definitely felt funky fresh.

2008-10-31 11:03

cavey

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68

To me, the thing that makes a demo is some demonstration of code/music/graphics, in multiple parts.

How everything is linked doesn't matter. My plain definition is just that: multi part demonstration of graphics, music and code.

Some do an excellent job with linking the stuff (most recent example EoD :P), some just have multi parts and use spacebar to load next part (metallic orgasm ftw!)

Seemlessly linked parts, isn't that what a 'trackmo' is? :P

anyways, I thought this question was about "what defines a demo" and not so much as "what defines the best demo" ?

Oh, yeah, what makes the demo too is the content. Some person who is proud to show of his musical skills, or graphical skills, or coding skills.

Under that definition a slideshow is a demo as well. A demonstration of the graphician's work, and his skill. Proud enough to release it to the world.

So, hmmz, makes sense? :P

2008-10-31 11:57

goto80

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138

there's also some sort of not-so-relative way of defining it...: everything audiovisual and moving that is released in the demoscene that is not intro/music/graphics?

so anything not released in the demoscene is not a demo. not jeff minter's early stuff (psychedelia, horses, taurus, etc), not tubular bells, 8bitpeoples data flyers, sperma-soft, chantal goret, PD-stuff, some compunet stuff, etc. or any music video, performance, or art-piece that has been programmed and runs in real-time.

...

what do u think?

2008-10-31 12:46

null
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645

"realtime generated audiovisual art". that's what I tell non-sceners when they ask what a demo is. it might not be a perfect description, but it does come close. if they are still intrested in it after I tell them that, then I explain it a bit more in detail.

------------------------------------
http://zomgwtfbbq.info

2008-10-31 19:29

Kickback

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97

Quote: Give me a call when you have settled this question once and for all, in a zillion years or so, okay? ;)

Well it was more of a question, not a question to gain a solution, just to see what people think about the question itself as with me.

And from the responses people see demos in all different shapes and forms. Some like "slideshows" others "presentation" or "wow effect".

I myself like all, there was a good point that rambones brought up about it being like a good book. Everyone has there favor old type book that they read some years back and always remembers it.

The "wow effect" is a big plus for me also, I don't think there is any feeling like sitting there with your mouth open and saying WTF??? OMG!!!! FUUUUUUUUUCK!!! And that and more came out my mouth for EoD, but it also came out my mouth for NW2, Amplifire and ofcourse some others.

I think the "wow effect" is something that keeps you coming back to watch the demo over and over. When I say "wow effect" to me it doesn't have to be something new, its something that is presented "differently".

Dawnfall's rasters at the end, before the doom maze. Now that to me (on top of the other stuff ofcourse) a wow effect for me, not because it was something technical but because it was so neatly done.

I guess this is what I am talking about when I asked the question about "What makes a demo". Give me some examples of what makes a demo for YOU? Cruzer has I understand what/where you are coming from.... Anyone else?

2008-10-31 20:32

Danzig

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440

Quote: What matters to me is the wow-effect you get when seeing something that hasn't been done before, that you might even have thought was impossible. This can be a new effect, a new gfx style, or even a cool tune. EoD was perfect in every aspect according to my taste, but what really gave it the "can't be done" feeling was the pace of it, which felt like a storm of effects, that seemingly didn't need any time to load or init, and to me that seems pretty out of this world considering how slow the c64 and especially the 1541 is. The only thing I can think of that comes close has been some onefilers like Dawnfall, but this went on for 15 minutes, so that definitely felt funky fresh.

I second that! It's the pace!!! The beast begins with nice pictures, kewl sound then some simple 2 lines "proudly presents"... And this is when the final gear is already reached! You fly through the demo and have no time to swallow what you get served. Those who have NOT seen it on the big screen might not understand/share this opinion?!

[Edit]
Just to be more precise: X2008 Democompo was teh megashow!
[/Edit]

2008-10-31 20:37

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

this question cannot be answered. what makes a good music? a nice painting? a nicely designed web page?

2008-10-31 20:52

cavey

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68

Ofcourse, a good demo is one which gets Oswald's seal of approval.

Without that, it's nothing.

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