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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 292 |
want to code
OK dudes... I need to start coding. I am in the need to get up and running... I am a fool and an idiot but I know a lot about the c64 and I know how to but not in code. I need someone who can guide me to start to be a coder, that said it is not like I want to be feed with links... I want to start coding with you as a guide and my mentor!
My dream: is there someone who can put aside one hour a day or second day with me and that know how to make me understand the basics so that I can expand on my own? I know nothing in commands and such as of start we can assume.
I know it might sound stupid but are there anyone out there who could do this? with me?
I can pay back with logos, graphics, part ideas and such...
pal of offence |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
thats why i suggested finding someone local :) i would even go further and say that a web forum is generally not the ideal medium to learn anything if you are a complete beginner. it can be a great medium once you learned enough to ask specific questions (and filter the answers for what you actually wanted to know) - but to be able to do that you need to know a few basics first, which can be best explained face to face, imho. |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Off topic and little constructive (so feel free to delete it Gpz^^);
I atleast learned one thing from Fungus's link (it got modded away though): How to waste 6 bytes more than neccessay when sending a M-E command to the Drive ;-)
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 292 |
Thnx again for all you stating things to what I asked for and I must say that I will code a part... tww thanx for you mails, they are very preciated and you are just such a nice dude... It is ok for personal opinions, but cant it be like I suggest this instead of that, and not go on a personal level all the time? love, not hate! |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
PAL: feel free to pm me with any questions you have. I'll be glad to share with you what I know...
and apologies for derailing your thread, it was not my intention at all. |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 722 |
Quoting PALThnx again for all you stating things to what I asked for and I must say that I will code a part... tww thanx for you mails, they are very preciated and you are just such a nice dude... It is ok for personal opinions, but cant it be like I suggest this instead of that, and not go on a personal level all the time? love, not hate!
Many years ago when I started learning machine code there were not that many resources, especially out in the middle of the countryside. I started out with BASIC poking around the VIC and SID but quickly needed to find quicker ways of accomplishing the logic held in my brain, mostly graphics animation ideas at that stage. I tried a BASIC compiler, it was faster but not fast enough. I tried Fourth, it was also faster but still not fast enough. So I decided to take the plunge and go the whole way to machine code.
I started with the C64 Programmer's reference guide because it was the only book the local library had. I didn't have an assembler or freezer cart so I learned the hex values of the opcodes and poked in my own code from memory.
Quickly after that I coded my own assembler, then after that managed to get hold of a decent assembler. Then my coding very quickly exploded and I was writing whole games without needing BASIC at all.
Of course being young I thought I knew it all and would jealously guard my coding secrets. But it was only after starting to work in the games industry and work with other like minded people that I really started to open my eyes to how programming was really done in the grown-up world. Until someone actually works in the games industry they've very little idea about how things are really done.
Luckily you don't have to go through the same kind of pain of having very few resources available to you. You've got a wealth of information at your finger-tips, some good some bad, but most of it useful because you'll need to learn to spot the good from bad anyway. :)
So the best advice I can give is take your time, give yourself small goals to work towards then scale up the ideas (it looks like you're doing this already) and don't be afraid to use code made by other people. Especially when they make it freely available for use. ( code https://github.com/martinpiper/C64 and some documentation http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=projects:resurrection ) The games industry in general thrived because programmers learned they work best when they work together and share code and ideas. It will help you learn and maybe one day you'll be making your own code available for others to learn from too.
If you have questions then of course I'm pretty easy to find since I use my real name. :)
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
Thumbs up for Martin! |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
What was so cool about the start, was getting my own name on the screen, and animate something.
Set a goal to make a small intro PAL.
PAL moving in sinus, with some good gfx and a scroller.
At least, you need to line out a small setup, and do this.
And stick to the setup. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
Just to throw my 2c in here - back in the early days, a lot of us learned to code by using a freezer cart. At the very least it lets you stop, change things, and then resume to see the results. I learned a lot back then just by freezing things and following the IRQ chain through to see what it was doing. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:Until someone actually works in the games industry they've very little idea about how things are really done.
until i worked in the games industry, i thought it is full of people who actually knew what they are doing =P
Manfred Trenz gave me the most essential advice back then: if you are confident that you, given enough time, could write the code in question yourself, *then* it is appropriate to look for someone elses code to save yourself the time of writing it. if you have no clue how to do it, then it is either a job for someone else, or you sit down and learn the subject and at least try to come up with your own solution. the latter is what seperates coders from programmers - programmers solve a given task in a given timeframe, and it doesnt matter to them if they understand what they are doing in all detail. coders take the time they need and they want to understand all of it.
however, all this doesnt matter a lot when it comes to the original question. a beginner cant just blindly copy stuff, then he wont learn anything. once he is at the point to choose wether to use a sprite multiplexer coded by someone else, he is most likely not a beginner anymore and has developed his own pet theory on how things work already :=) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Quote: the latter is what seperates coders from programmers - programmers solve a given task in a given timeframe, and it doesnt matter to them if they understand what they are doing in all detail. coders take the time they need and they want to understand all of it.
I remember Mario van Zeist stating the exact opposite. ;)
Anywho, potatoes, tomatoes.. Manfred's advice sounds sensible, though. |
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